Alternatives to BK subs

[Elephantears]

Thanks all, I'm persuaded to put my plans for this on hold.

If you change your mind, you're welcome to borrow my REL T1. You may well have a month or two of frustrating faff with settings, but you might enjoy Basic Channel a bit more on the way. I also have an Elipson Planet sub too; I've even tried them in stereo, mismatched, which smacked of desperation.

 

[TheDecameron]

It depends what you want to do with the subwoofer. If you just want to have louder booming bass and aren't bothered about integrating the subs with the mains or the room then they are good value subwoofers by home audio standards. If you want decent quality bass and cleaned up mains then you need the sub to return a high passed signal to the amp and to include a way to specify the gain and time delay with frequency. Alternatively you can do this with an upstream box of electronics like a PC, minidsp, probably some AVR receivers, etc... and supply a low passed signal to the sub with whatever controls it has got set to off.

There are similar studio subwoofers around the BK price point and they will likely offer a filtered return signal to the amplifier enabling better integration with the mains. Looks will be poor though. Price would need to be raised to get adequate gain and delay control.

Thanks h.g Ive always been reluctant to put the high level output through a sub and return the high pass to the main speakers on the basis that I’d be putting the output of a relatively expensive system through much cheaper electronics with an impact on SQ.
I see that on a Devialet, I can set the main speakers for high pass and the variable line level outputs to low pass in the digital domain and will give that a try. I was very tempted for a while to try a Velodyne DD with full auto set up and room calibration. They come up on the s/h market and I ogled a DD18 which would perhaps be overkill or alternatively a lot of fun on timpani and organ...

 

[Seanm]

I'm sorry to hear that Sean. I guess it all began to feel a bit complicated and expensive?
I have used REL subs for years and never felt the need for DSP. A bit of a fiddle with the controls and sub positioning generally produces some great results.

If you change your mind, you're welcome to borrow my REL T1. You may well have a month or two of frustrating faff with settings, but you might enjoy Basic Channel a bit more on the way. I also have an Elipson Planet sub too; I've even tried them in stereo, mismatched, which smacked of desperation.

Yes, can seem myself opening up an avenue of dissatisfaction and expense when actually I'm very happy with the sound I have, I'm just curious to hear a fuller range.

Having said that, I might take you up on your offer some time Andrew!

 

[ToTo Man]

As I've said previously, if all you want is a "fuller range" then simply buy one or two XXL200 or XXL400 subs and request to have the internal crossovers modified to be 24dB/oct slope and a minimum crossover frequency of 25Hz instead of the stock 12dB/oct 40Hz configuration (they'll do this free of charge ). Place the sub/s as close to your main speakers as possible and set the sub's crossover frequency low enough so that they don't add output to your modal range and/or where your main speakers are still audibly driving the room. You can always add DSP to sort out your room's bass issues in the modal region at a later date.

 

[Elephantears]

Yes, can seem myself opening up an avenue of dissatisfaction and expense when actually I'm very happy with the sound I have, I'm just curious to hear a fuller range.

Having said that, I might take you up on your offer some time Andrew!

I'm happy to pop one over in the car, in return for an extreme-geek comparison of 70s and 80s Japanese Coltrane pressings.

 

[Seanm]

I'm happy to pop one over in the car, in return for an extreme-geek comparison of 70s and 80s Japanese Coltrane pressings.

Excellent, I'll PM.

 

[ToTo Man]

I got a BK400 for peanuts (relatively) from an eBay reseller. It’s got a class AB plate amp and I bet it would be astounding with a class D amp on board. The driver and cabinet are top notch.

OK I'll bite... In what ways would a Class D amp improve over the stock amp in the XXLS400?

 

[TheDecameron]

Damping factor.

 

[ToTo Man]

Damping factor.

Is this a limitation of the specific AB plate amp in the XXL400 or of class AB amps in general? (I've seen some AB amps with what I'd consider to be pretty high damping factors).

 

[TheDecameron]

Would you say the internal amp is optimal for the design and there’d be no point in replacing it in terms of SQ? I’ve never heard bass control from the class AB amps I’ve owned compared with Class D, particularly the icepower 1200as2. I’ve simply not achieved that level of bass quality at home before.

 

[ToTo Man]

Would you say the internal amp is optimal for the design and there’d be no point in replacing it in terms of SQ? I’ve never heard bass control from the class AB amps I’ve owned compared with Class D, particularly the icepower 1200as2. I’ve simply not achieved that level of bass quality at home before.

TBH I've no idea as I've yet to hear a class D amp in my system. Would like to try one at some point though!...

EDIT - When it comes to my subs I'm skeptical as to whether I'd hear the differences between any amp, so long as it has enough peak power capability, as I'm crossing them over so low (they're effectively out of the game by 40Hz).

 

[TheDecameron]

TBH I've no idea as I've yet to hear a class D amp in my system. Would like to try one at some point though!...

I’ll lend you one if you like.

 

[ToTo Man]

I’ll lend you one if you like.

That's kind of you, I might take you up on it.

 

[Discopants]

As long as your room isn't too boxy ie square. Then REL subs I've found Integrate well if you spend a couple of hours tuning it to the room and system. Plenty of subwoofer test tone videos on you tube if you can stream in to your system.

 

[Guest432]

I’ve just got an xls400ff to add some bass to my Audio Note AN-k which only go down to around 50Hz. I have the volume on it set fairly low but it does make a huge difference to the overall sound.

I’ve always had issues with bass in my room but I’m not willing to start messing around with traps or acoustic shite.

Without sub

With sub

 

[Suffolk Tony]

Would you say the internal amp is optimal for the design and there’d be no point in replacing it in terms of SQ? I’ve never heard bass control from the class AB amps I’ve owned compared with Class D, particularly the icepower 1200as2. I’ve simply not achieved that level of bass quality at home before.

When the 1,000W Class D amp in my hulking great SVS sub decided to blow up irreparably (not uncommon apparently), I replaced it with this plate amp from BK - http://www.bkelec.com/MODULES/extreme1000.htm which fitted the SVS cutout with minor fettling, and in my view sounds even better than the SVS one.

 

[TheDecameron]

Very nice!

 

[TheDecameron]

I’ve just got an xls400ff to add some bass to my Audio Note AN-k which only go down to around 50Hz. I have the volume on it set fairly low but it does make a huge difference to the overall sound.

I’ve always had issues with bass in my room but I’m not willing to start messing around with traps or acoustic shite.

Without sub

With sub

Can you tell me what settings you used on the sub? Freq, gain and phase? Did you adjust and take measurements each time? It’s the 400ff I have too.

 

[Guest432]

Didn't really do anything technical, just took a sweep of the room before switching it on and then set the freq and gain until it sounded ok. Then took another sweep after. I'll have a look at the settings when I get home but I didn't touch the phase at all, it's still set to zero.

 

[ToTo Man]

I’ve just got an xls400ff to add some bass to my Audio Note AN-k which only go down to around 50Hz. I have the volume on it set fairly low but it does make a huge difference to the overall sound.

I’ve always had issues with bass in my room but I’m not willing to start messing around with traps or acoustic shite.

Without sub

With sub

Looks like a good result there!

PS - Are those the actual levels you ran the tests at (i.e. 45dB), or have the graphs been reformatted? In my room 45dB is quite close to the external noise floor (I didn't realise this until I looked at the RTA with no signal playing and noticed periodic spikes (mainly subsonic but some also intrude further into the LF spectrum) from passing traffic etc).