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Allae tweeter dead Scan-Speak D2008/852100 four nuts instead of three

V

Volobuev

pfm Member
The tweeter in the right loudspeaker stopped to work.
I have yet to make sure that it is the driver Scan-speak D2008/851100 died and not the electronics in the crossover, but if the driver is gone, then the direct replacement for D2008/851100 is D2008/852100.

I already found from where I can buy it but the problem is that D2008/852100 has 4 holes instead of 3 to fix it in the cabinet. The new driver also has Neodynium Magnet. I do not know anything about it.
I do not mind aestetics (if the left will be fixed by 3 and the right by 4 bolts), drivers will be covered by the grille anyway.

My concern is how can I put it securely in place. Surely, I will have to drill new holes, but are there any other 'hidden' (from me) problems?
Does it make sense to replace both tweeters? The left one is still alive. I bought the Allae new in 2006.
Thank you in advance for your advices!
 
Looking at the D2008/852100, the cable soldering connections are on the sides, when I replaced one of mine with an original D2008/851100, the connections I believe were on the back. No idea if you have clearance for these without cabinet modification.

There was also seemingly a chunk of oblong metal stuck to the back of the original D2008/851100, which I pulled off and glued in the same orientation on the new D2008/851100. Not sure how this would affect things.
 
Did find this junker though, looks like the tweeter itself has had a tangle with a unicorn at ramming speed.
 
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There are some slight electrical differences between the two, so ideally you would need to alter the cross over for the new tweeter. That said the differences are small. What's the cross over frequency used in the speaker? Do you know?

old:

new:

I would change both, because there is definitely going to be a change to the overal presentation/frequency response of the speaker with the new tweeter.

As much has said, the old tweeters connectors appear to be at the rear of the magnet assembly, the new tweeter they are to the side, so it's very likely you're going to need to cut a couple of notches in the cabinet to be able to fit the new tweeter. At least the face plate diameter and thickness appear to be the same so that's one plus point.

You're going to need to put up with the screws being asymetrical visually though as it's very likely that at least one of the existing holes will be very close to where you'd ideally want to put the new ones.

Edited: I hadn't realised how the tweeter was attached, so i've removed a non sensical statement I made.
 
Thank you for input! Now it looks to me like a not a good idea to get D2008/852100. Probably I should look for a stray D2008/851100 somewhere, or even to repair the current one -- is it possible at all to repair it? I do not have such skills but there are plenty of people who have, I assume.
 
Volobuev said:
Thank you for input! Now it looks to me like a not a good idea to get D2008/852100. Probably I should look for a stray D2008/851100 somewhere, or even to repair the current one -- is it possible at all to repair it? I do not have such skills but there are plenty of people who have, I assume.
Click to expand...
First thing I would do in your place is swap the tweeters over, and confirm it's the tweeter that's blown. Unless you've been playing the speakers at very high volume or using a very underpowered amp and driven it to clipping through the speakers I'd be surprised if the tweeter is burnt out, so I'd be suspicious of the crossover myself. It's probably using electrolytic capacitors and they can dry out and fail, which would cause the tweeter to just stop working potentially (depending on exactly how the crossover component involved failed).

Just keep the volume very low when you do the test swap to make sure you don't risk your amp.

Have you contacted Naim? There's a reasonable chance they might have spare stock of the old unit. They're likely to charge you a lot for it though. Alternatively try contacting Scanspeak themselves, they may also have some old stock.

If it is the tweeter, then you're not going to be able to repair it yourself. That's not to say they're not repairable, but it'll take skill and knowlege to do so. (Scanspeak may have a repair service?)

I've just looked at the link must provided, I hadn't realised the tweeter is mounted from the back on to a front plate. (Not familiar with the speaker). I don't know what that panel is made of but I wouldn't fancy trying to fit a tweeter with a different screw pattern to it unless it's made of wood/mdf. It'll leave you with some unsightly holes even if you did manage it.
 
These might help:

IMG_20191220_184118 by muchtoofast, on Flickr

IMG_20191228_150008 by muchtoofast, on Flickr

I had no idea what the chunk of metal sat on rubber was at the time, the + and - marks were just to replace it in the same orientation.

Cabinet mods may be quite easy if necessary as its all covered by a metal plate, but as you can see, going from 3 screws to four is going to take some woodworking skills and metalwork holes also.

I also had to buy a higher wattage soldering iron as the cable just ate all the heat from my smaller iron.

The splurge on top is from a glue gun. Possibly unnecessary looking back on it.
 
There appear to be a few NoS ones still around in stockists

www.soundimports.eu

Order the Scan-Speak Classic D2008/851200 Dome Tweeter

Buy the D2008/851200 online at SoundImports ✓ Same day shipping ✓ Low shipping rates
www.soundimports.eu www.soundimports.eu

I would not mess about here!

Get a pair while you still can and get another pair to squirrel away.

Don't under any circumstances buy just one since Scan changed the diaphragm membrane material about 5 years back and new ones don't pair well with old.

Do not hang around since seconds after me having posted that link the stock will very quickly vanish!
 
colasblue said:
There appear to be a few NoS ones still around in stockists

www.soundimports.eu

Order the Scan-Speak Classic D2008/851200 Dome Tweeter

Buy the D2008/851200 online at SoundImports ✓ Same day shipping ✓ Low shipping rates
www.soundimports.eu www.soundimports.eu

I would not mess about here!
Click to expand...
Well found, main bass drivers are long gone I think. Are these the right tweeter though? Thought they should be 851100? Sound presentation wise, although they are 4 hole mounting, from what I've read the 852100 are closer to the 851100 than the 3 hole 851200. Yup, those naming conventions are so easily confused!
 
Try Here. You may wish to email them first to confirm etc. I haven't used the company previously. Description part number differs from stock code. Its likely they aren't what you are looking for and just the replacements.
 
Thank you, gez, I am planning not to swap tweeters but to put two speakers close together, unplug the cable leading from crossover to the tweeter and plug in the cable from crossover from another speaker. If you are not familiar with Allae construction, look at the pictures of them, back side, and you will understand what I mean. For example,

It will take some time, though, as I am busy, speakers are heavy on spikes and my floors are hardwood. I need to prepare and it should be done during the day, and the day is short now.

Thank you, [B]muchtoofast[/B], for the link to Australian shop, I will send them request. I already seen 851100 in an Estonian shop, but they do not have any, suggested 852100 instead. The complication is that I am in Russia, and most countries cut their supply to Russia, there is a problem with payment, and most refuse to send to Russia. Regarding repair, of course I have no idea how to do it, but there are people locally who I guess have some expertise in this, they even build their own drivers, It will not be cheap, though, and the result is unpredictable, and I cannot check how well it is done. This Estonia shop I found ships to Russia and accept payment from Russia.
 
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I contacted the Australian shop, they still have 851100 in stock, accept payment from Russia and ship to Russia. I now need to make a 'swap crossovers' test to make sure it is the tweeter, not electronics, and then order. Thank you very much, muchtoofast, for your input, it was very helpful! I searched the internet for a couple of days, but this Australian shop link never surfaced.
 
muchtoofast said:
Well found, main bass drivers are long gone I think. Are these the right tweeter though? Thought they should be 851100? Sound presentation wise, although they are 4 hole mounting, from what I've read the 852100 are closer to the 851100 than the 3 hole 851200. Yup, those naming conventions are so easily confused!
Click to expand...
This is the spec sheet for the 2008/851200:



Electrically this is how the three compare:

Original:

Nominal impedance [Zn] 8 Ω
Minimum impedance [Zmin] 7.1 Ω
Maximum impedance [Zo] 19.1 Ω
DC resistance [Re] 5.7 Ω
Voice coil inductance [Le] 0.08 mH

85210:

Nominal impedance [Zn] 8 Ω
Minimum impedance [Zmin] 6.9 Ω
Maximum impedance [Zo] 21.1 Ω
DC resistance [Re] 5.9 Ω
Voice coil inductance [Le] 0.08 mH

85120:
Nominal impedance [Zn] 8 Ω
Minimum impedance [Zmin] 6.5 Ω
Maximum impedance [Zo] 11.5 Ω
DC resistance [Re] 5.7 Ω
Voice coil inductance [Le] 0.08 mH

Comparing the impedence curves for each, the 85210 definitely are a closer match (pretty much identical really) to the originals. The 85120 are about 0.5 ohm lower across 2khz - 6khz (basically anywhere a reasonable cross over frequency could be), which will impact integration, in general terms the lower impedence curve is going to mean (compared to the original) the 85120's output is going to be very slightly higher (despite the same sensitivity). Though how much I couldn't say without the use of cross over simulation software.
 
Rather than removing both tweeters and swapping them, first try unsoldering one cable from the suspect tweeter and then use a multimeter and test the resistance of this tweeter. My faulty tweeter gave an open circuit reading and not several ohms.
 
UPDATE - I tested my crossover with the ancient paper cone driver, possibly from an old fixed line radio -

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I attached two wires to it, and then unplugged half-way the tweeters plugs on both speakers, then touched each plug in turn by both wires, on left and right speaker, did it several times. The driver produced some sound each time, there was no difference in sound between two speakers to my ears.
So, the crossover is o.k., means the tweeter is certainly dead.
Will order 1 piece of original 851100 from the Australian shop while they still have some.
 
Volobuev said:
UPDATE - I tested my crossover with the ancient paper cone driver, possibly from an old fixed line radio -

Google Photos

Home for all your photos and videos, automatically organized and easy to share.
photos.google.com
I attached two wires to it, and then unplugged half-way the tweeters plugs on both speakers, then touched each plug in turn by both wires, on left and right speaker, did it several times. The driver produced some sound each time, there was no difference in sound between two speakers to my ears.
So, the crossover is o.k., means the tweeter is certainly dead.
Will order 1 piece of original 851100 from the Australian shop while they still have some.
Click to expand...
Good stuff, lets hope it doesn't cost too much to post it!
 
UPDATE - the Australian shop ships to Russia but I am not able to pay, Visa cards cannot be used because of the sanctions against Russia.
I decided to have a break for one two three months and see. Maybe I'll find a way to pay to the Australian shop, maybe I'll find some other solution, like refurbishing/repairing the current one.
Anyway, 85210 from the Estonian shop will be available in the future, no reason to rush. Thanks everyone for input!
 
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