7 Year Old Car - Flog or Keep?
- Thread starter S-Man
- Start date
In defense of the E46 318i with oil burning engine I once had. Mine had the standard suspension that handled very well in the real world. And, yes I've had a Peugeot 605 V6 which combined handling and comfort very admirably. But it was a FWD...
S-Man
StrivingON
Mine had the standard suspension.It was fine in the front, but not great in the back, just like my wife’s mini. However, I once did have the misfortune to travel for a few hours on the M6 in the back of a 330 coupe with M suspension. It was really uncomfortable and unpleasant.
FWIW the fastest I’ve ever been (and driven) in a car was in a BMW coupe cabriolet diesel thingy in Germany. I thought they were supposed to have some sort of speed limiter at about 150 miles an hour? I got to 250KPH (on a Satnav) and it was still accelerating
I agree some cars look as you described the Astra at 20yrs old, but not all. I'm driving a 150k miles 18 year old Volvo S80. I've been underneath and its free from any significant rust, paint and headlamp lenses are not faded and seats are still the most comfortable of any I've sat in. Its only really costing me in the usual consumables. But not all cars are built to last 20 years like it seems my Volvo is.
That said I can see the complex, model specific, networked electrical architecture of this car puts it into the category of cars that will either not be supported or cost too much to fix once something other than a consumable fails. As I only paid £850 for my car I can walk way at that point and not be too unhappy.
I think there will always be people like me prepared to buy a 16yr old for a grand and use it until it throws up a massive bill or cannot be successfully put through an MoT because some dealer only part is no longer available. There will be people who will also happily buy a 3yr old and run it while its supported, which seems to be up to about 10 yrs old.
But who would part with what I consider big money (>£5k) for something not supported? Perhaps I am too pessimistic and risk averse, but if everyone thinks like me older/unsupported car values will drop as they are not worth the risk. When cars were simpler this conundrum did not exist, I ran several cars past 20yrs old and never heard the dreaded term NLA (no longer available) from the dealer.
And if anyone hasn't already worked out my modus operandi, no I wouldn't consider PCPing upwards of £6k p/a for something as comfortable, refined and well made as what I am accustomed to
Great minds think alike, exactly what I want. But we are an extreme minority. No manufacturers cater to our wishes. Gadget counts sell cars to most first time buyers.
SteveG
pfm Member
At the risk of sounding like an old person (which I kind of am!) but my cars also have loads of standard features that I don't want and won't ever use. My Merc has loads - stuff like automatic parking etc. - although at least none of them actively annoys me. On the other hand my wife's Outlander has keyless starting which is something I actively dislike and would definitely prefer not to have.
Just this week I was thinking about how the manufacturers have used their R and D budgets to push on ICE development in the last 20 years. Whilst there are power/torque/emissions improvements there has been a general downward spiral in reliability and number of common/expensive problems (direct injection carbon build up, DPF woes, plastic cam chain guides, RMS failures etc) since what I consider the peak time for engine designs that offered maximum trouble free longevity, ie mid-90's.
Casting my mind back to 1998 when I was deciding which engine to have in my 10 year old BMW E34 (518i through to 540i were my options) I had no such worries, they were all solid and capable of hitting 200k if looked after with minimum expenditure. I ended up taking a 530i from 120k to 250k with nothing more than a water pump and oil changes. When recently considering a used 2005-ish 6 Series I discovered that the pitfalls are so rife there are several websites dedicated to the issues on each series of BMW engine. It didn't make for pleasant reading.
I bought my ULEV compliant 2005 Volvo instead. Being a less well off concern, Volvo are forced to soldier on with older engine designs than their German contemporaries. This seeming disadvantage actually turns to an advantage for the buyer of an older car like the one I chose. The 2.4 NA 5 pot has a great reputation for longevity/reliability/running costs. Progress is a multifaceted beast and I'm happy my car is powered by an "old" engine lacking the "advantages" of modern development.
Casting my mind back to 1998 when I was deciding which engine to have in my 10 year old BMW E34 (518i through to 540i were my options) I had no such worries, they were all solid and capable of hitting 200k if looked after with minimum expenditure. I ended up taking a 530i from 120k to 250k with nothing more than a water pump and oil changes. When recently considering a used 2005-ish 6 Series I discovered that the pitfalls are so rife there are several websites dedicated to the issues on each series of BMW engine. It didn't make for pleasant reading.
I bought my ULEV compliant 2005 Volvo instead. Being a less well off concern, Volvo are forced to soldier on with older engine designs than their German contemporaries. This seeming disadvantage actually turns to an advantage for the buyer of an older car like the one I chose. The 2.4 NA 5 pot has a great reputation for longevity/reliability/running costs. Progress is a multifaceted beast and I'm happy my car is powered by an "old" engine lacking the "advantages" of modern development.
I loved my E34 530i. It was the best all round car I have owned. You could press on quite hard before its handling deteriorated and yet it was still comfortable and refined. The build quality will never be repeated again. It was reliable and simple to fix. BMW supported it even when it was 12yrs old. I only moved it on because I fancied a change. The Mercedes SL320 that replaced it was better looking, but that was about it. A bygone era.
I'm on my 3rd BMW, current 1 year old 330i is the best yet but not as comfortable as my previous 5 series. Just great all rounder, can do 50mpg on a run but accelerates quickly & is very quiet.
I don't think it is quite as solid as my older 3 series but a much better car all round. I also really like the looks but many don't.
PaulMB
pfm Member
Does having 4 cylinders instead of 6 make much difference? I ask because the modern equivalent of my 1999 528i would be a 330, and I really love the silence and smoothness of the 528 and the way it turns into a rocket at about 4000 RPM.
martin clark
pinko bodger
Keep the e39 528, and curate it carefully!
Modern things may be quicker on paper, have more toys, blah, blah, blah.
BUT in enjoying owning&driving a thing that was right then, yet remains so good now: well: you'll not find an equivalent that hits that spot. For whatever set of values you value - and it is your taste & circumstance in the round that matters, not internet-fanboi-nonsense -
...if what you have pleases you/ remains a great answer , for you: just take care of what you have. And - enjoy it!
PaulMB
pfm Member
Thanks, Martin. That is what I've been doing since I bought it with just 80,000 km. Now at 144,000, and still feels new. It also has the "M" features, beautiful leather, and a fantastic stereo with CD-changer and an extra amplifier in the boot. But it is 24 years old. But, as you say, my recent visit to a BMW showroom did not awaken any particular desires. They all looked cheap and gimmicky (and amazingly expensive!) compared to mine. So I will do as you suggest.
martin clark
pinko bodger
@PaulMB
- I posted that from the POV of my second e39 - a 535 with the nicest, smallest, but smoothest (also free-revving/ pulls hard to 6K5, , unlike the larger versions all-done by 5k) version of the BMW v8
It's ... a fine thing; I'm keeping it.
- it falls almost exactly halfway between the e34 540 I ran for 6+ yrs ( and loved: the lolloping, Springer- Spaniel of 5-series saloons; off the leash it was a lot of fun...); and the 5+yrs with an Alpina B10 3.3 manual that followed. (which was epic; but like having the utmost-trained gun-dog in comparison; one of the most-complete, joined-up , driving experiences ever. Almost too good )
- I posted that from the POV of my second e39 - a 535 with the nicest, smallest, but smoothest (also free-revving/ pulls hard to 6K5, , unlike the larger versions all-done by 5k) version of the BMW v8
It's ... a fine thing; I'm keeping it.
- it falls almost exactly halfway between the e34 540 I ran for 6+ yrs ( and loved: the lolloping, Springer- Spaniel of 5-series saloons; off the leash it was a lot of fun...); and the 5+yrs with an Alpina B10 3.3 manual that followed. (which was epic; but like having the utmost-trained gun-dog in comparison; one of the most-complete, joined-up , driving experiences ever. Almost too good )
cutting42
Arrived at B4 Hacker Ergo
An E46 with run flats? Are you sure? I don't recall them ever coming with them. If someone had fitted them without the correctly designed suspension it would be horrendous. My first BMW's were the E90 series 3 in 2005 and they didn't sort the suspension properly for run flats until my second one 3 years later in 2008
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
martin clark
pinko bodger
^ Quite right for the M60!
I meant in the M62 version ( whereas, when all you'll ever read on places like PH online is '540 min.' by people who've never driven any version whatsoever... )
Well: no: yes the 4.4 makes a few % more power and has a lug more low-end torque - it's rather more lumpen, rather less-nice than the M60 4.0 to rev - and whizzier than both (having owned these all) is the M62 3.5: its glass-smooth, and wants to romp-away up to 6k5 pulling hard within its reduced remit all the way. Both the earlier M60 4.0, and the M62 -3.5 : even if they do make slightly less power... both spin-up readily & usefully - when the 4.4 (and later 4.6/4.8 derivs) are basically all-done by ~5.
A matter of taste/ choosing what kind of presentation you like: e.g - a 540 touring - then, heck yes, the 4.4. is wonderful, for the reasons you'd want such a load-lugging beast, to paste your Labrador on the rear screen on take-off
I meant in the M62 version ( whereas, when all you'll ever read on places like PH online is '540 min.' by people who've never driven any version whatsoever... )
Well: no: yes the 4.4 makes a few % more power and has a lug more low-end torque - it's rather more lumpen, rather less-nice than the M60 4.0 to rev - and whizzier than both (having owned these all) is the M62 3.5: its glass-smooth, and wants to romp-away up to 6k5 pulling hard within its reduced remit all the way. Both the earlier M60 4.0, and the M62 -3.5 : even if they do make slightly less power... both spin-up readily & usefully - when the 4.4 (and later 4.6/4.8 derivs) are basically all-done by ~5.
A matter of taste/ choosing what kind of presentation you like: e.g - a 540 touring - then, heck yes, the 4.4. is wonderful, for the reasons you'd want such a load-lugging beast, to paste your Labrador on the rear screen on take-off
Given how the road conditions in my area (potholes and traffic jams) and my level of maturity have progressed over the last couple of decades I have realised smoothness is my replacement for fast when it comes to driving style. I still enjoy challenging myself to improve my car control, but now it's all about anticipation and smoothness. As such I want a car that is designed to compliment my driving style. Its for this reason that I am sad to see the demise of the straight six in affordable cars and the march to hard suspension designed to impress journalists who only ever seem to discriminate between competing models by their on limit handling and track times.
After the Volvo I am thinking Lexus.........
After the Volvo I am thinking Lexus.........
PaulMB
pfm Member
I have distant memories of hearing that six cylinders should, other factors being equal, be smoother than 8, because the mass of the pistons cancelled each other out or something. Also that 3 cylinders, as in a BSA Rocket, if at 120 degrees to each other, were smoother than a 4. Yet all of the luxury cars of the "Golden Age" had V-8s or, as in my grandfather's Packard, a straight-8.
I'm sure Marin will have the low-down on all this.
I'm sure Marin will have the low-down on all this.
Tony Lockhart
Avoiding Stress, at Every Opportunity
The Nurburgring Nordschleife has a lot to answer for. The place should either be dug up and have trees planted over its entirety, or manufacturers should be banned from it. I really can’t imagine what some performance cars are like to ride in now.