2014 Formula 1 Season Thread (part II)

[KC Cantiaci]

Another important point is that being on pole does not mean that you will be quicker than your team mate in the race because driving style affects how the tyres work over a stint. In Bahrain Nico was definitely quicker and in Spain the laptimes suggest that Nico was quicker.

But they were on different strategies so the tyres were operating under different weights and temperatures at different times during the race so how can you say with 100% certainty that Nico was quicker? At the beginning of the race, they started on the same tyre with the same fuel load and Nico didn't challenge Lewis for the 18 or so laps as Lewis got to over 2 seconds in front of Nico and out of DRS range and maintained it.

To me, they are fairly evenly matched and there's not a lot in it with neither being much quicker than the other. I would guess even pit stops could have a bearing if one is significantly slower or quicker than the other as nearly happened in Spain. To my mind, Lewis just seems to want it more. Either way, it's great to see competition and edge of your seat racing.

Drivers egos rarely allow them to say that other drivers are quicker than them!

Which reinforces my opinion that Lewis is a gracious guy and a team player as it was his team-mate he was talking about. I wouldn't expect Lewis/Mercedes to go the same way as RB and other teams have gone in the past with driver's criticising the team/other drivers and thereby undermining the team and I think Lewis understands this.

Lewis had a string of really bad pit stops affecting his races when he was in the last year or two with McLaren. I used to shout at the TV as I couldn't believe how many times he got screwed by a duff wheel gun or some such issue that delayed his exit onto the track time after time. To have two drivers competing as closely as Lewis and Rosberg and one driver ends up with significantly slower pits stops than his teammate (well down even compared to other teams), I'm not sure I would be so polite under the circumstances..... and this must add to the pressure when in the middle of a race. I think he's doing brilliantly and I hope he maintains it.

 

[IanW]

But they were on different strategies so the tyres were operating under different weights and temperatures at different times during the race so how can you say with 100% certainty that Nico was quicker? At the beginning of the race, they started on the same tyre with the same fuel load and Nico didn't challenge Lewis for the 18 or so laps as Lewis got to over 2 seconds in front of Nico and out of DRS range and maintained it.

Exactly, Nico followed Lewis and was damaging his tyres from the first lap as he was not in clear air. There was no point him sitting right behind Lewis (around 1 sec) as all he would do is trash his tyres at an even faster rate. At the end of the stint Lewis' times were dropping away, which was why he pitted. Nico was able to go on a bit longer as he had not damaged his tyres as much for the laptimes he achieved, despite being stuck behind Lewis which was damaging his tyres. I.e. if Nico was out in front he would have gone faster than Lewis.

To me, they are fairly evenly matched and there's not a lot in it with neither being much quicker than the other. I would guess even pit stops could have a bearing if one is significantly slower or quicker than the other as nearly happened in Spain. To my mind, Lewis just seems to want it more. Either way, it's great to see competition and edge of your seat racing.

I agree with all of the above.

 

[merlin]

I think the days of one driver, however talented, being much quicker than another are long gone, unless one compares lap times in wet races and sessions.

It's far fairer these days to say that one side of the garage held the upper hand rather than to attribute everything to a driver.

For me, what separates the great F1 drivers from the excellent professionals is how they manage the defining moments. It's here that they can make the difference. The greats regularly pull out a couple of tenths just when it matters to move up the grid. They pull off audacious overtaking moves or resist pressure with incredible forethought and planning. They raise their game on an out or inlap just when it makes the difference between winning and losing.

Those qualities are rare in the current field and what, to me, makes the true greats so special. Over a career, these moments of pure class add up.

I just think Hamilton has that ability, and I've yet to see it from Rosberg (or indeed from his dad if honest.)

 

[cutting42]

For me, what separates the great F1 drivers from the excellent professionals is how they manage the defining moments. It's here that they can make the difference. The greats regularly pull out a couple of tenths just when it matters to move up the grid. They pull off audacious overtaking moves or resist pressure with incredible forethought and planning. They raise their game on an out or inlap just when it makes the difference between winning and losing.

Those qualities are rare in the current field and what, to me, makes the true greats so special. Over a career, these moments of pure class add up.

I just think Hamilton has that ability, and I've yet to see it from Rosberg (or indeed from his dad if honest.)

Nail... head.

+1

 

[KC Cantiaci]

Exactly, Nico followed Lewis and was damaging his tyres from the first lap as he was not in clear air. There was no point him sitting right behind Lewis (around 1 sec) as all he would do is trash his tyres at an even faster rate. At the end of the stint Lewis' times were dropping away, which was why he pitted. Nico was able to go on a bit longer as he had not damaged his tyres as much for the laptimes he achieved, despite being stuck behind Lewis which was damaging his tyres. I.e. if Nico was out in front he would have gone faster than Lewis.

OK, I can understand the logic in that...... But wouldn't Nico have been better to take the hit, stay within 1 sec until the DRS became operational to then use it to get past because if he was quicker, he might have been able to outpace Lewis so stop the reverse happening a lap or so later?

Based on these early races, these two are so closely matched, qualifying along with getting off the line for track position early on is virtually deciding the race. I guess we might know more if Nico was to out qualify Lewis, then we could see how Lewis would react. My gut says he'll fight hard, it'll be a bit like Bahrain BUT I do think Lewis would come out in front....... I guess we'll have to wait and see as the season progresses. Exciting though!

 

[Richard Nichola]

I think for Monaco, Max Chilton to score a point would be an interesting bet...

 

[IanW]

OK, I can understand the logic in that...... But wouldn't Nico have been better to take the hit, stay within 1 sec until the DRS became operational to then use it to get past because if he was quicker, he might have been able to outpace Lewis so stop the reverse happening a lap or so later?

No, because he would have been damaging his tyres even more and had he got past (which was very unlikely as they were so close on performance, with a couple of tenths per lap difference, spread around a lap), then he was less likely to be able to pull away. Better to wait to try and accumulate the gain over a series of stints and overtake at the end.

 

[cutting42]

Re Lewis at Monaco, I seem to recall last year Lewis struggled with braking feel for much of the year. Assuming this has been resolved in 2014, does this mean that his previous strong Monaco pace will be restored. At McLaren he monstered the track.

Can't wait - any chance of moving Monaco to this weekend please?

 

[F1eng]

Frank,

To be fair to Cutting42, Monaco winners are from a smaller pool of drivers, which does suggest, statistically at least, that there is some element of driving style that is more important at Monaco. And as you say, Nico has been very quick at Monaco, every time he has driven there.

I am surprised at your comment re some teams thinking it was mechanical grip! McLaren knew that it was downforce before I started in F1, 24 years ago. I always thought that comments like you are talking about, only existed in the press!

Ian

Yes, the driver probably has a slightly bigger influence at Monaco than at other tracks.
I would have expected McLaren to know about the aero and the fact that mechanical grip doesn't exist per se. Some teams/engineers do not though...
Prost was the first driver I worked with who sussed it for himself.

 

[Rasher]

I always think that in Monaco a pit stop should mean that the drivers stop for a Pimms on the terrace.

 

[Cav]

Drivers do not dictate strategy, they have to drive with what they are given.

This has, for me, been the bane of F1 for years.

 

[F1eng]

Getting a good strategy is not obvious. Wild guesswork and the feeling in the waters doesn't work very well.
I don't know about the others teams but back in 1993/4 we did a strategy calculating computer programme. It was only 5% as sophisticated as those used now, no statistics and traffic delay estimates, but it allowed us to beat Williams, who had a faster car but still sat round a table and guessed what to do and sometimes changed during the race. They were pretty well never right.

Motor racing is quite complicated, that is why there are so many people involved. At least in football you get to see more of those involved. The driver is a bit like the goalie, the most critical person in the team from time to time but most of the time not really in the game.

 

[IanW]

Ferrari also didn't develop any real strategy tools (at least what Frank I would classify as such) until relatively recently.

In the Ross Brawn + Michael Schumacher days they followed a more difficult and costly approach, namely develop the fastest car and have the fastest driver so that overall they would be significantly faster than anyone else and just race off into the distance.

 

[Tony Lockhart]

Autosport is reporting today that fuel is having a greater influence than before, as it opens up options with recovering more energy. This could be interesting, as long as spectators don't get cancer from the exhaust emissions!

 

[Rack Kit]

Ferrari also didn't develop any real strategy tools (at least what Frank I would classify as such) until relatively recently.

In the Ross Brawn + Michael Schumacher days they followed a more difficult and costly approach, namely develop the fastest car and have the fastest driver so that overall they would be significantly faster than anyone else and just race off into the distance.

What's going on with Lewis' fuel use v everyone else, even his team mates? The graphics we get on TV tell us he's using less than the other drivers, less even than Nico.

Does this mean he's driving with something to spare & could turn up his pace if really needed to or is it just his late braking ability that's leading to it?

Also, is Nico benefitting more from the data from the other side of the garage now as he was left for dead in the 2nd race ( can't remember which one) but seems to be well up on pace now with Lewis?

Cheers,

Rack.

 

[Unregistered]

What's going on with Lewis' fuel use v everyone else, even his team mates? The graphics we get on TV tell us he's using less than the other drivers, less even than Nico.

Does this mean he's driving with something to spare & could turn up his pace if really needed to or is it just his late braking ability that's leading to it?

Rack.

I noticed that too; my guess is that it's because he's running in clean air and not fighting for position.

 

[KC Cantiaci]

I noticed that too; my guess is that it's because he's running in clean air and not fighting for position.

See I think like that but GTM dismissed it. IanW said that Lewis tends to brake late and hard so recovers energy well BUT then has to accelerate hard so I guess might use some of that recovered energy up. It would be revealing if Lewis was behind Nico in a race and then the stats might shed some light.

 

[IanW]

What's going on with Lewis' fuel use v everyone else, even his team mates? The graphics we get on TV tell us he's using less than the other drivers, less even than Nico.

Unregistered comments explain most of it, i think that his driving style is also having some impact.

Does this mean he's driving with something to spare & could turn up his pace if really needed to or is it just his late braking ability that's leading to it?

I think that is just his driving style. It is very difficult for drivers to modify the way they drive that much so whilst it looks he might have something left if required, it may be that he can only access a small part of it.

Also, his Nico benefitting more from the data from the other side of the garage now as he was left for dead in the 2nd race ( can't remember which one) but seems to be well up on pace now with Lewis?

No that is journalists writing a load of rubbish. Data from each driver has always been available to the other driver and engineers to work out where they are quicker and slower so that as a team they can be quicker. In the end it benefits everyone in the team as it pushes the team on to develop car performance and makes it more difficult for the competitors.

 

[Richard Nichola]

See I think like that but GTM dismissed it. IanW said that Lewis tends to brake late and hard so recovers energy well BUT then has to accelerate hard so I guess might use some of that recovered energy up. It would be revealing if Lewis was behind Nico in a race and then the stats might shed some light.

I didn't read it like that. I think he meant that because he was on the power longer (because he brakes later), he was using more fuel before the corner, rather than that he ends up going through the corner more slowly and needs to accelerate more afterwards.

 

[merlin]

I was under the impression that Hamilton was using a lift and coast technique quite effectively.

Not sure where I heard it but it struck me that he was driving very intelligently for someone supposed to be the less smart of the two.