2004 Mini One
- Thread starter George J
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George J
Herefordshire member
The radio question only applies in the sense of specifying a new car. A prospect that seems inconcevable!
Over the last forty five years, I have had three second hand cars that did not have a radio fitted, and I never fitted one myself.
The absence of a car radio in a potential purchase of a second hand car would be a small advantage to me, but would not trump the condition of it mechanically or degree of corrosion.
I am no enthusiast for driving, but do like the mechanical aspect of a car, though the most elegant mechanical engineering for me stems from simple and easy to repair systems ...
Thus I prefer push-rod overheard valves to over-head camshafts. So simple to adjust and just as functional.
Best wishes from George
Not any more. Post Covid the "under £1000" car is now an utter dog, dragged out from a garage and tarted up to run for as long as it needs to to get out of the street. It used to be a good source of decent cars that had another year or two left, maybe more.
Pushrods are really not "just as functional" if your idea of function extends beyond simply making the engine run. They will do that, but their performance (and I don't just mean speed) is a mile behind an OHC design. A magneto or points and a coil will run an engine, a carburettor will too, but both are significantly lower in engineering performance than the modern alternatives. They are not "more reliable" either, they break down all the time, the only difference being that they are easy to fix at the side of the road. The only reason why repairing motorists of the 60s, 70s and 80s were so adept at repairing cars at the side of the road was because they had to do so every few months.
George J
Herefordshire member
Dear Steve,
By functional I mean the engine will run to its original design parameters ...
I am adept with simple engines as I used to use them at a time when a damp distributor cap meant a non-start or a hard start, and so on. You soon got used to running an absorbent cloth round on foggy mornings. No problem in my book. In reality, for reliable performance a car probably needed a service every six months. But you did not have to take it to a garage most of the time, and even if you did, the costs were relatively much lower than modern computer controlled electronic ignition and fuel injection cars are now, basically because the old style meant most parts were considered service consumables, whereas the modern, so say, more efficient electronic gizmos are basically fit for lifetime parts; except that they still break down and lead to the scrapping of an otherwise perfectly serviceable car for an electronic part replacement that the renders the work uneconomic. The tying in of setting up of a new computer module to the original manufacture [via main dealerships or good independent garages] is simply an added layer of expense that does not benefit the car owner one jot ...
You may consider me a Luddite concerning modern cars, and I am not ashamed to agree that you are correct!
Best wishes from George
Tony Lockhart
Avoiding Stress, at Every Opportunity
Usually, when a car’s engine stops after being driven through water, the engine hasn’t hydrolocked.
What has often happened is that water has made its way to the air filter and soaked it. Once soaked, the air filter presents more of a barrier to air flow into the engine, and usually won’t even flow enough air to allow the engine to idle, let alone move the car. (Removing the air filter allows the engine to run, but it can be a good idea to release trapped water from pipes to and from the intercooler, if it’s a turbocharged engine)
A hydrolocked engine stops immediately. It doesn’t pump steam or black smoke through the exhaust. If it does turn over, it ain’t a pleasant sound.
Engine air induction systems often have the air pipes routed so that the air meets the horizontal air filter from underneath. Much safer when hoovering up half a lake!
What has often happened is that water has made its way to the air filter and soaked it. Once soaked, the air filter presents more of a barrier to air flow into the engine, and usually won’t even flow enough air to allow the engine to idle, let alone move the car. (Removing the air filter allows the engine to run, but it can be a good idea to release trapped water from pipes to and from the intercooler, if it’s a turbocharged engine)
A hydrolocked engine stops immediately. It doesn’t pump steam or black smoke through the exhaust. If it does turn over, it ain’t a pleasant sound.
Engine air induction systems often have the air pipes routed so that the air meets the horizontal air filter from underneath. Much safer when hoovering up half a lake!
As in, it will run. Well, easy done. Your pre war Royal Enfield did that.
Jesus Christ. Have you considered buying a steam engine? Or maybe a horse, how about that? It only needs a bag of oats.
They really weren't. Cars of the 70s were indeed in for service every 6 months and cost a good deal in consumables. My modern car has done 40k miles in 3 years, it has cost me 2 services, a set of brakes all round and a heater motor. It has 200k miles on the clock and returns over 40 mpg. Find me a car with points and a carb that gets anywhere close to that. You won't.
Oh yes it does. On 10k miles a year the difference between 30 mpg (typical for say a Mk2 Escort) and 45mpg (current Focus) is 333 gallons of fuel plays 222 gallons. At 1.50/L that's £755 saved a year. You don't need to do that for very many years before an electronic repair becomes a drop in the ocean. In my entire motoring career of 35 years and over half a million miles I've had 1 ECU fault, which turned out to be a dicky connection.
You're not a Luddite, you are just misguided and nostalgic for the past. You bought a crap car, you think they're all like that. They're not. One thing I do know, I wouldn't go back to points and carbs if you paid me and agreed to take on all the additional costs.
Tony Lockhart
Avoiding Stress, at Every Opportunity
I’ve been driving cars with injection/ECU since 1994. So, about 750,000 miles I’d guess. In that time, a coil pack died on our Mk4 Golf GTI 1.8T, known issue, all four replaced by VW, no charge. And that’s it.
Before 1994… 12 years of driving, carb diaphragms split, condenser in distributer died, twin carb linkage on Triumph Dolomite Badley worn… I’m sure there’s more.
And my current petrol-engined, 1.5 litre turbo, large estate car does 46mpg average, and that’s with air conditioning on all the time, and at consistently higher average speeds. My 1976 1.8 Dolomite did 28mpg, maybe 30 if I really nursed it.
Before 1994… 12 years of driving, carb diaphragms split, condenser in distributer died, twin carb linkage on Triumph Dolomite Badley worn… I’m sure there’s more.
And my current petrol-engined, 1.5 litre turbo, large estate car does 46mpg average, and that’s with air conditioning on all the time, and at consistently higher average speeds. My 1976 1.8 Dolomite did 28mpg, maybe 30 if I really nursed it.
Well, if you will drive a Triumph Dollopo'Sh*te, you deserve what you get! Mind you, I can't talk. I owned a Triumph Spitfire (could have been worse, I actually looked at a Triumph Snag) and the experience cured me of classic cars for the next 10 years. I then had a 2CV, which was fun but I don't have a desire to go back there, especially at current prices.
George J
Herefordshire member
Dear Steve,
In general old cars could be easily fixed at the roadside unless you ran the big ends or jiggered the clutch or other major workshop mechanical repairs. The same applies today. Ruining a clutch is just as easy today as it was sixty or a hundred years ago.
I have never broken a car mechanically in all my time driving since 1979. Sympathy for the machine and all that. Also I have never broken down in a car with carburettor and tradition ignition with points, coil and condenser. The reason is that these thing tend to give warning that some work needs doing before they give up completely. Arguably the computer based things are far less good in that they tend to work till the stop often without any warning at all.
The idea that servicing a traditional set-up engine is more expensive compared to a modern [computer-based] one is laughable as the service parts were cheap and widely available at almost every garage and petrol station four decades ago. These days all you need is to keep a few crucial spares in the car with the suitable spanners and screw drivers, and feeler gauges of course. Fixing at the roadside is a lot cheaper and faster than getting towed away to some unknown garage with your modern car!
I have risen horses back in the 1970s and '80s, and I have a feeling that their range is limited, and their fuel requirements, let alone parking facilities are hardly catered for nowadays! And they do need more than a few scoops of oats a day to be well cared for!
As for steam, it is even less efficient at converting the energy of the fuel into useful work done than internal combustion powered cars.
So neither steam nor horse transportation will fill the bill in the twenty-first century!
People do go on about the increased fuel efficiency of modern complex tech internal combustion engines. I am sure this is true as far as this gives a somewhat incomplete picture of the costs involved. My Royal Enfield workshop manual states that if the m/c is doing less than 120 mpg, it needs a tune up or engine rebuild. To rebuild the engine is rather easy as the big end bearing is part of a multi-part crank that allows for the fitting of factory matched big end soft-metal bush [not shells] and the actual replacement crank pin. No machining required and serviceable indefinitely by the owner or mechanic, quite literally so long as spares are made. You could buy a rebored [at the factory. ie. service reconditioned] cylinder that bolts to the crank case, and matched to a factory matched piston. Really simple and within the ability of anyone handy with spanners! So an easily serviced engine of 350 cc that will do an easy 120 mpg. Show me a modern m/c that is so easy. Okay the brakes were terrible, but there has been progress in some areas for sure, not the least of which is brake lining materials!
In 1950 one of the leading car magazines reported that it had achieved 100 mpg in a Morris Eight. Of course this hardly represented daily driving or typical use, but it shows that smaller old style engine could achieve impressive result in the decades before I was born. I myself have achieved 63 mph in a Mini pick-up in 1979 between Hereford and Shap. Not bad for a seven year old car going a steady 55 to 60 most of the way.
And it did not miss a beat either.
Enjoy driving a modern [in my view] over sophisticated car that will bite you in expensive fashion eventually. I'll try to get hold of something simpler, but not necessarily worse overall for myself even if it might appear somewhat old fashioned.
Best wishes from George
In general old cars could be easily fixed at the roadside unless you ran the big ends or jiggered the clutch or other major workshop mechanical repairs. The same applies today. Ruining a clutch is just as easy today as it was sixty or a hundred years ago.
I have never broken a car mechanically in all my time driving since 1979. Sympathy for the machine and all that. Also I have never broken down in a car with carburettor and tradition ignition with points, coil and condenser. The reason is that these thing tend to give warning that some work needs doing before they give up completely. Arguably the computer based things are far less good in that they tend to work till the stop often without any warning at all.
The idea that servicing a traditional set-up engine is more expensive compared to a modern [computer-based] one is laughable as the service parts were cheap and widely available at almost every garage and petrol station four decades ago. These days all you need is to keep a few crucial spares in the car with the suitable spanners and screw drivers, and feeler gauges of course. Fixing at the roadside is a lot cheaper and faster than getting towed away to some unknown garage with your modern car!
I have risen horses back in the 1970s and '80s, and I have a feeling that their range is limited, and their fuel requirements, let alone parking facilities are hardly catered for nowadays! And they do need more than a few scoops of oats a day to be well cared for!
As for steam, it is even less efficient at converting the energy of the fuel into useful work done than internal combustion powered cars.
So neither steam nor horse transportation will fill the bill in the twenty-first century!
People do go on about the increased fuel efficiency of modern complex tech internal combustion engines. I am sure this is true as far as this gives a somewhat incomplete picture of the costs involved. My Royal Enfield workshop manual states that if the m/c is doing less than 120 mpg, it needs a tune up or engine rebuild. To rebuild the engine is rather easy as the big end bearing is part of a multi-part crank that allows for the fitting of factory matched big end soft-metal bush [not shells] and the actual replacement crank pin. No machining required and serviceable indefinitely by the owner or mechanic, quite literally so long as spares are made. You could buy a rebored [at the factory. ie. service reconditioned] cylinder that bolts to the crank case, and matched to a factory matched piston. Really simple and within the ability of anyone handy with spanners! So an easily serviced engine of 350 cc that will do an easy 120 mpg. Show me a modern m/c that is so easy. Okay the brakes were terrible, but there has been progress in some areas for sure, not the least of which is brake lining materials!
In 1950 one of the leading car magazines reported that it had achieved 100 mpg in a Morris Eight. Of course this hardly represented daily driving or typical use, but it shows that smaller old style engine could achieve impressive result in the decades before I was born. I myself have achieved 63 mph in a Mini pick-up in 1979 between Hereford and Shap. Not bad for a seven year old car going a steady 55 to 60 most of the way.
And it did not miss a beat either.
Enjoy driving a modern [in my view] over sophisticated car that will bite you in expensive fashion eventually. I'll try to get hold of something simpler, but not necessarily worse overall for myself even if it might appear somewhat old fashioned.
Best wishes from George
Tony Lockhart
Avoiding Stress, at Every Opportunity
I remember my dad doing regular decokes on A Series engines into the 1970s. Every 10,000 miles? Ok, it was easy enough, but sod that, and ithe cost/hours chews into the fuel savings. I bet that 100mpg car followed the age old cheats of tyres at 60psi+ and the very thinnest oil available in the sump.
And bringing the battery into the house if a particularly cold night was forecast. I can’t remember the last time I heard of an engine not starting after a cold night, and we have had some very cold ones over the last twenty years.
George J
Herefordshire member
Dear Tony,
Tell me about cold starts! The worst were the 1950s Massey Fergusion 35s with the Standard Triumph derived Perkins four cylinder engine, which would easily run 10,000 hours before a rebuild. Two huge six volt batteries, and a minute pressing on the heater button before even trying, and pushing like mad on the KI-gas pump with the optimistic view that it would fire before the batteries ran down or the starter over-heated! In reality it hardly ever failed! But the amount of black smoke and knocking when it did fire up was astonishing!
Best wishes from George
Tell me about cold starts! The worst were the 1950s Massey Fergusion 35s with the Standard Triumph derived Perkins four cylinder engine, which would easily run 10,000 hours before a rebuild. Two huge six volt batteries, and a minute pressing on the heater button before even trying, and pushing like mad on the KI-gas pump with the optimistic view that it would fire before the batteries ran down or the starter over-heated! In reality it hardly ever failed! But the amount of black smoke and knocking when it did fire up was astonishing!
Best wishes from George
sean99
pfm Member
Which was an unfortunately frequent necessity.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
I was delighted to see the back of distributor caps and carbs. I know carbs have their own magic in some engines, but electronic ignition and fuel injection have done more for reliability and ease of starting than almost anything. Not to mention the improvements in fuel economy.
I had a set of points disintegrate while driving in the middle of the countryside once. No roadside repair possible then.
My first car, an ex-RAF mk1 Ford Escort 1100, did 25-30mpg, it was underpowered and needed a good caning to make any progress. My Opel Monza GTE did the same mpg, and had three times the power and twice the performance. I now have a car with much the same power and performance as the Monza, but routinely get 40mpg.
There’s something to be said for a certain amount of more modern technology under the bonnet.
I had a set of points disintegrate while driving in the middle of the countryside once. No roadside repair possible then.
My first car, an ex-RAF mk1 Ford Escort 1100, did 25-30mpg, it was underpowered and needed a good caning to make any progress. My Opel Monza GTE did the same mpg, and had three times the power and twice the performance. I now have a car with much the same power and performance as the Monza, but routinely get 40mpg.
There’s something to be said for a certain amount of more modern technology under the bonnet.
Tony Lockhart
Avoiding Stress, at Every Opportunity
If it wasn’t for the plethora of sensors fitted in, on and around engines, life could’ve been sweet. They’re necessary, obviously, but grrrrrr, they’re not great, says Tony.
Got chatting to a guy a few months ago who’d res used a Mk1 Cortina body shell from the crusher. It really was a rusty horror, but he worked on it as something to do through the lockdowns. Then fitted it with a 2.0 Zetec, but no sensors. Had throttle bodies fitted, company in Colchester sorted the injection and ignition mapping, less than ½ a day, Bob’s yer mother’s brother. Looked so clean and simple without all the (necessary) fluff.
Got chatting to a guy a few months ago who’d res used a Mk1 Cortina body shell from the crusher. It really was a rusty horror, but he worked on it as something to do through the lockdowns. Then fitted it with a 2.0 Zetec, but no sensors. Had throttle bodies fitted, company in Colchester sorted the injection and ignition mapping, less than ½ a day, Bob’s yer mother’s brother. Looked so clean and simple without all the (necessary) fluff.
George, you're dreaming if you think a wartime or postwar 350 motorcycle with a carb and points made 120 mpg, ever, unless it was on a track at a steady 30 mph. They just didn't. 50-60mpg, sure, by the 50s and 60s, but twice that, during WW2? Come on. Little 125 singles do now, driven carefully, and at 12 bhp have similar power to a 350 of the 40s and 50s, but that's called 80 years of progress. Still, if you want to buy something old and pretend that 50 years of progress has all been backwards, be my guest. I've been there and tried it. Old stuff is fine if you want to spend more time mending it than driving it. Fine if you drive like a nun and do 5000 miles a year to and from church, and you're happy to put a new piston and barrel on after 20k miles. Otherwise? No. Old cars and motorbikes are great fun, but don't kid yourself that they present an alternative to modern transport.
Edit - I think I know where you are getting your 120 mpg from. Middleweight bikes at that time had about 2.5 or 3 gallons tank capacity. They generally returned 50-60 mpg so you would get 150-180 miles *per tankful* and yes, if you were getting less than 120 miles per fillup you probably did have something out of adjustment. That much would make sense.
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George J
Herefordshire member
Well, the plot thickens. The last two days the car is running properly, but I am still disconnecting the earth on the battery on turning off. Perhaps the investment of £6.99 for a brass and copper earth terminal switch may be the short term solution.
I am still hunting for a basic small car at tops of £1000.
Someone said earlier that my Mini One was not so good, but I refuse to complain. I paid £400 for a car that has run well for eighteen months, and only costs have been an oil change and three worn out tyres. Not a bad buy, but simply impossible to repair economically if one takes the utilitarian view.
For me it has to be utilitarian!
If I could afford any car I would get a 1948/'50 Bentley Mark Six or a late fifties Alvis TE. Neither exactly practical, but certainly able to keep up with modern traffic, and both had double ignitions with magneto, and coil and points, switchable for starting and emergencies! But these cars had presence and style, if a tendency to pass other cars less well than they want to pass the next petrol station for a quick drink!
Best wishes from George
I am still hunting for a basic small car at tops of £1000.
Someone said earlier that my Mini One was not so good, but I refuse to complain. I paid £400 for a car that has run well for eighteen months, and only costs have been an oil change and three worn out tyres. Not a bad buy, but simply impossible to repair economically if one takes the utilitarian view.
For me it has to be utilitarian!
If I could afford any car I would get a 1948/'50 Bentley Mark Six or a late fifties Alvis TE. Neither exactly practical, but certainly able to keep up with modern traffic, and both had double ignitions with magneto, and coil and points, switchable for starting and emergencies! But these cars had presence and style, if a tendency to pass other cars less well than they want to pass the next petrol station for a quick drink!
Best wishes from George
lordsummit
Moderator
Just had a quick look on Autotrader near me. Best choice on there for that money seem to be the Nissan Micra. There’s a couple of low mileage ones for that money. Sure they’d do the job.
bor
queue jumper
Are you completely sure you just don't need a new battery? When a battery starts to fail, it can start throwing up weird warnings and errors.
And, with the utmost respect, the engine sounds like it has survived 20 years without causing any problems (as it should be) despite it's complexity.
And, with the utmost respect, the engine sounds like it has survived 20 years without causing any problems (as it should be) despite it's complexity.
To be fair if you have had 18 months for £400 in the current market you have done OK. The thing is that at £400 you are into something at the end of its life. As far as economic repair goes, I remember £400 cars from the 80s, they were end of life and you were into engine rebuilds and welding up large sections of rotten bodywork. Can you do it? Sure, if you're a halfway decent mechanic. What's it cost? Rather a lot, for a big box of engine parts. A sheet of steel and some hammers, less so.
It's getting increasingly hard to find something that's not comprehensively worn out or rotten for your figure of £1000.