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£30 for a new record when the CD is £8

Certainly not a routine purchase for me any more. Bought a couple over Christmas - average price £27. FFS!

But however they're actually made records still sound very different from digital in my system, in a way that I usually like. So I still do it occasionally.
 
We are all grown-ups with experience of good and bad sound quality using decent audio equipment.
My point was I see youngsters opening stupid money to listen to often substandard products on crap record players.
Over Xmas I saw two lads but Queen's greatest hits for £29!
 
I kind of understand why someone would still buy records even if their record player is a bit rubbish. I just like records :)

I don't really get why anyone would pay that sort of money for music that can be had second hand for buttons.

The UK top selling vinyl of 2017. A truly depressing list.

01. Ed Sheeran – Divide
02. Liam Gallagher – As You Were
03. Fleetwood Mac – Rumours
04. Guardians Of The Galaxy – Awesome Mix 1 Original Soundtrack
05. Amy Winehouse – Back To Black
06. Rag’N’Bone Man – Human
07. Pink Floyd – The Dark Side Of The Moon
08. Beatles – Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band
09. Oasis – What’s The Story Morning Glory
10. David Bowie – Legacy
11. Radiohead – OK Computer
12. Bob Marley & The Wailers – Legend
13. Noel Gallagher’s High Flying – Who Built The Moon
14. Stone Roses – The Stone Roses
15. Nirvana – Nevermind
16. Beatles – Abbey Road
17. Queen – Greatest Hits
18. Nirvana – Unplugged in New York
19. Guardians Of The Galaxy – Awesome Mix 2 Original Soundtrack
20. David Bowie – The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust
 
Why depressing? Predictable, possibly, but only because there are some stone-cold AAA belters on there.
 
I was in a south Manchester record shop yesterday who told me that copies of Tapestry and Rumours fly off the shelves - and anything by the Eagles
 
The list may not be as depressing as it may first look. I suspect the real story is that with the democratisation of music in the post-major label-era there are just so many small subgenres competing that little new stuff actually gains critical mass. This doesn’t imply an unhealthy scene, just a remarkably diverse one where folk are actually buying lots of largely unknown grime, dubstep, rap, electronica, indie, avant, modern jazz etc etc that certainly exists in copious quantities even if individual titles don’t go over a couple of thousand pressed. One simply can’t apply the rules and logic of the corporate-driven pre-internet music scene to what is happening today. Anyone who doubts this really needs to pop into a shop like Rough Trade, Piccadilly Records or wherever, leaf through the countless racks of new stock and admit honestly how little they are actually familiar with!
 
For contrast here's the album streaming chart:

1 ÷ ED SHEERAN
2 MORE LIFE DRAKE
3 X ED SHEERAN
4 GANG SIGNS & PRAYER STORMZY
5 GLORY DAYS LITTLE MIX
6 DAMN. KENDRICK LAMAR
7 COMMON SENSE J HUS
8 STONEY POST MALONE
9 STARBOY THE WEEKND
10 CURTAIN CALL - THE HITS EMINEM
11 TIME FLIES - 1994-2009 OASIS
12 + ED SHEERAN
13 VIEWS DRAKE
14 MOANA MOTION PICTURE CAST RECORDING
15 SO GOOD ZARA LARSSON
16 25 ADELE
17 PURPOSE JUSTIN BIEBER
18 HUMAN RAG'N'BONE MAN
19 IN THE LONELY HOUR SAM SMITH
20 I CRY WHEN I LAUGH JESS GLYNNE

No DMOTM, Rumours or Sgt Peppers (though no escaping Ed Sheeran!)

The vinyl list is depressing to me because it doesn't seem to reflect actual listening habits or what most people are buying. It's culturally conservative and nostalgic.
 
paulfromcamden said:
The vinyl list is depressing to me because it doesn't seem to reflect actual listening habits or what most people are buying. It's culturally conservative and nostalgic.
Click to expand...

Agreed. A far more interesting question would to be to ask in Rough Trade, Piccadilly etc what percentage of sales is current vs. dad-rock/back catalogue.
 
Yeah I'd be interested in seeing that - I don't know if any of those shops actually do a best sellers list.

Norman Records list the weeks best sellers and it's generally an interesting list. Top of the chart this week is a new Goblin live album!
 
Tony L said:
The list may not be as depressing as it may first look. I suspect the real story is that with the democratisation of music in the post-major label-era there are just so many small subgenres competing that little new stuff actually gains critical mass. This doesn’t imply an unhealthy scene, just a remarkably diverse one where folk are actually buying lots of largely unknown grime, dubstep, rap, electronica, indie, avant, modern jazz etc etc that certainly exists in copious quantities even if individual titles don’t go over a couple of thousand pressed. One simply can’t apply the rules and logic of the corporate-driven pre-internet music scene to what is happening today. Anyone who doubts this really needs to pop into a shop like Rough Trade, Piccadilly Records or wherever, leaf through the countless racks of new stock and admit honestly how little they are actually familiar with!
Click to expand...

Good post. People who say there is no good music being made anymore have never taken any time to get familiar with Rough Trade or Piccadilly. I was in London the other day and I had a look through Rough Trade's sale racks - there wasn't a single album I was familiar with, and I am reasonably in touch with new stuff on indie labels.

I don't think it's necessarily a hardship that good modern music isn't widely popular, as you can still listen to what you want and you get to see great artists in small venues. I have bought tickets for upcoming Manchester gigs for both Big Thief and Greta van Fleet recently at about £12 a pop. If they were well known I would be paying 3 or 4 times that at bigger venues. The only downside is that you don't get to share your musical tastes with many people and there is no national appreciation of good artists. There is now a divide between people like those of us on here and the Sheeran/Adele fed masses. If any of the people I work with looked at the best of 2017 thread on here they would be baffled.
 
Paul Mc said:
We are all grown-ups with experience of good and bad sound quality using decent audio equipment.
My point was I see youngsters opening stupid money to listen to often substandard products on crap record players.
Over Xmas I saw two lads but Queen's greatest hits for £29!
Click to expand...

That is a good point. A lot of the kids buying vinyl have no idea how little value they are getting from it when they are using crappy supermarket record players. If they are at all bothered about sound quality (although, as we know, vinyl isn't always just about that) they would be better off streaming YouTube through a £200 wireless speaker and saving a lot of money in the long run.

Are you referring to King Bee in your other post? They told me the same thing about Rumours once.
 
JD68 said:
That is a good point. A lot of the kids buying vinyl have no idea how little value they are getting from it when they are using crappy supermarket record players. If they are at all bothered about sound quality (although, as we know, vinyl isn't always just about that) they would be better off streaming YouTube through a £200 wireless speaker and saving a lot of money in the long run.
Click to expand...
My 19 year old grandson bought a few albums recently, and asked his dad to buy him a record player. The first one, £40 icnluding integral speakers, usb and line out, clunked and wobbled, so it went back to Amazon. £60 (half price in in a sale at HMV) got him a "better" one. Which wobbled and vibrated so much, even with the speakers turned off, that it skipped! That's going back too. He brought his Kanye West and Lamar Kendrick LPs round here to listen to, and was shocked at the difference. No skipping either.
I got fed up at this point, so on ebay I have won him a Denon DRA-210 receiver (£29 inc p&p), and a little Sony PS-LX56 deck (£20, local pick up). I wouldn't have them, but they should at least play records! And cost less than his HMV thing.
He can hear the difference in replay, loves the artwork and physicality of LPs, so good luck to him, I say. His older and younger brothers are both into LPs; he is the last one to get involved, but hopefully it is the start of a lifetime's appreciation of something that is not disposable. Time will tell.
 
paulfromcamden said:
I kind of understand why someone would still buy records even if their record player is a bit rubbish. I just like records :)

I don't really get why anyone would pay that sort of money for music that can be had second hand for buttons.

The UK top selling vinyl of 2017. A truly depressing list.

01. Ed Sheeran – Divide
02. Liam Gallagher – As You Were
03. Fleetwood Mac – Rumours
04. Guardians Of The Galaxy – Awesome Mix 1 Original Soundtrack
05. Amy Winehouse – Back To Black
06. Rag’N’Bone Man – Human
07. Pink Floyd – The Dark Side Of The Moon
08. Beatles – Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band
09. Oasis – What’s The Story Morning Glory
10. David Bowie – Legacy
11. Radiohead – OK Computer
12. Bob Marley & The Wailers – Legend
13. Noel Gallagher’s High Flying – Who Built The Moon
14. Stone Roses – The Stone Roses
15. Nirvana – Nevermind
16. Beatles – Abbey Road
17. Queen – Greatest Hits
18. Nirvana – Unplugged in New York
19. Guardians Of The Galaxy – Awesome Mix 2 Original Soundtrack
20. David Bowie – The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust
Click to expand...

This list exists because this is the selection of vinyl Sainsbury’s sell. This is almost exactly an inventory of the selection available from most of their stores and as a result, of course it makes up the most bought vinyl this year.

It does, however, say nothing about people’s listening habits and instead shows us how lazy “convenience” makes people’s shopping habits
 
paulfromcamden said:
For contrast here's the album streaming chart:

1 ÷ ED SHEERAN
2 MORE LIFE DRAKE
3 X ED SHEERAN
4 GANG SIGNS & PRAYER STORMZY
5 GLORY DAYS LITTLE MIX
6 DAMN. KENDRICK LAMAR
7 COMMON SENSE J HUS
8 STONEY POST MALONE
9 STARBOY THE WEEKND
10 CURTAIN CALL - THE HITS EMINEM
11 TIME FLIES - 1994-2009 OASIS
12 + ED SHEERAN
13 VIEWS DRAKE
14 MOANA MOTION PICTURE CAST RECORDING
15 SO GOOD ZARA LARSSON
16 25 ADELE
17 PURPOSE JUSTIN BIEBER
18 HUMAN RAG'N'BONE MAN
19 IN THE LONELY HOUR SAM SMITH
20 I CRY WHEN I LAUGH JESS GLYNNE

No DMOTM, Rumours or Sgt Peppers (though no escaping Ed Sheeran!)

The vinyl list is depressing to me because it doesn't seem to reflect actual listening habits or what most people are buying. It's culturally conservative and nostalgic.
Click to expand...

It's a very, er, shouty top 20.:)
 
Without the infrastructure that is in place to manufacture millions of dad rock LPs and CDs, (4 million LPs and 40 million CDs sold last year according to The Guardian), the interesting indie labels wouldn’t be able to afford or produce what they do. They just wouldn’t have the capital or demand to make it worthwhile investing in pressing plants etc. So the chart/dad rock sales are doing us all a big favour by keeping the infrastructure in place. There are some great records being produced just below the surface (see the Else Marie Pade thread). For example, Derek Bailey’s widow is allowing Incus master tapes to be mastered at Abbey Road by Rashid Becker, and pressed by Pallas. Imagine that happening without the Beatles et al still selling their back catalogue in huge numbers.

And another observation; the chart of the top UK top selling vinyl list that is being criticised here probably reflects quite accurately the content of most music threads here on PFM. Irony?
 
Graham H said:
And another observation; the chart of the top UK top selling vinyl list that is being criticised here probably reflects quite accurately the content of most music threads here on PFM. Irony?
Click to expand...

I don’t have a single Ed Sheran record!

PS This forum, like the audiophile community in general, is fairly elderly. I haven’t run an age poll for a while, but last time I did it put the top of the bell-curve at around 50 IIRC. As such most of us bought any of the old ‘dad rock’ titles in that “chart” new when they were released! I’d be curious to know who is buying them now, as I don’t think it will be us (e.g. I’d want mint original pressings of any I’d missed/wanted, I tend to avoid reissues unless they have some specific audiophile context).
 
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