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£1k integrated amp for Shahinain Obelisks?

^Edinburgh.

I have put the AVI back in, and have to admit, its better overall than the 40W tube amp. Now I will just listen to some music for a bit.
 
Well, got some mixed feelings about these. Tried them positioned all over the place and while the soundstage is always great, soggy bottom is a problem. The bass seems to chunter along at its own pace not necessarily much connected with the rest of the music.

Not sure changing the amp is going to make much of a difference to this, my understanding is that the wacky current demand is more in the treble than the bass for these speakers?
 
Alan, I think you'll find it's more like the other way round. You are hearing the results of amps that can't cope with driving the Obs.

Jez
 
Generally, timing is a very strong point of Shahinian speakers.

I've twice heard Obs (mk 1) sounding flabby and slow in the bass, one was (as mentioned) an amp without enough power to control it (I think it was a low-ish end Rega amp), and the other was the room. Although the Shahinians are pretty forgiving of the room and placement, there's no getting away from the amount of bass energy the larger models pump out, and if it happens to hit an interaction with the room, it'll be a challenge.

I wonder if there are any other Fishies near you that would be willing bring a beefier amp to yours for a few hours dem. I would happily offer, but Hampshire to Lothian is a bit too far!

Chris
 
Hi

I have never had lumpy bass out of mine. With my old Dynavector HX75 (75wpc version) the bass sounded fine but the sound hardened up at higher volumes. Now I have a Devialet 250, the bass has more impact and clarity but the main thing is they will now play very loud without any discomfort or change in character. I had previously thought it might be my room but apparently not.

Obelisks are definitely sensitive to amplifier choice, maybe the avi character doesn't suit?

A couple of thoughts, are the passive radiators in good condition? I also heard (on the Internet) that the fuses can age and reduce bass quality though when I spoke to my dealer about replacing them he said not to bother unless they blew.

Cheers

Chris
 
Do you still have the Opals? I'd be fascinated to hear how they compare to the Obs. My final move will either be to one of these. I've concluded that if I go the Obs route it will be with a Meridian 559 as they are not a bad price SH.
 
alanbeeb said:
http://lickham.co.uk/pdfs/obelisk.pdf
"impedance hovers around 2 ohms over most of the treble"

http://www.audiocounsel.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Shahinian-Obelisk-Loudspeaker-review.pdf
"These speakers do not require behemoth amplifiers
to perform in most situations, but they do appreciate current capability because of their pretty peaky impedance curve (it’s actually the high frequency impedance troughs that have tended to upset some amplifiers in the past).
Click to expand...

Yes but! FYI Jason is a member of pfm and now uses a Dynavector HX100. These are powerful amps for their size.

The bass symptoms that you describe exactly points to poor current delivery from the amplifiers. The energy from the rear of the woofer is mechanically coupled/crossed over via a transmission line to that heavily doped ABR at the back. This means that to get the bass notes moving needs a lot of current. Then when the note stops all this mass will have momentum that wants to keep moving so the amplifier also needs very good damping in order to 'stop' the movement via the back EMF.

Failure to meet this criteria leads to poor sloppy and indistinct bass delivery. Over the years I have heard people say things like the Arcs sound better than the Obs but what they fail to grasp is that an amp that will successfully drive the Arcs may not do justice to the Obs. I have been on that journey where a NAP 250 and a pair of NAP 135s just couldn't drive the Obs anywhere near their best although some on pfm will dispute this as they have most likely never heard what Obs can do. Note that all amps that are successful like Dynavector, Plinius, Bryston, Passlabs etc have high current delivery capability. As I have already said I now use two Meridian 559s one for each speaker as these have enormous current capability and the sound from these speakers is sometimes better than at a live performance of which SWMBO and I go to many.

Cheers,

DV
 
alanbeeb said:
Well, got some mixed feelings about these. Tried them positioned all over the place and while the soundstage is always great, soggy bottom is a problem. The bass seems to chunter along at its own pace not necessarily much connected with the rest of the music.

Not sure changing the amp is going to make much of a difference to this, my understanding is that the wacky current demand is more in the treble than the bass for these speakers?
Click to expand...

The latter is true, amps struggling with impedance characteristics tend to harden the upper mid ime.

The only times I've heard these I couldn't enjoy them for reasons similar to your comments. I find they produce an overall 'effect' that you either like and see as 'open and out of box'. Or they leave you feeling that they ultimately lack focus and precision as a trade off. I fell into the second group, maybe you do too. They tend to divide opinion.
 
SteveS1 said:
The latter is true, amps struggling with impedance characteristics tend to harden the upper mid ime.

The only times I've heard these I couldn't enjoy them for reasons similar to your comments. I find they produce an overall 'effect' that you either like and see as 'open and out of box'. Or they leave you feeling that they ultimately lack focus and precision as a trade off. I fell into the second group, maybe you do too. They tend to divide opinion.
Click to expand...

I don't think that's the case here... I like the presentation, its just the bass that bothers me. TBH there is also a slight nagging feeling that there's not a lot going on in the midrange between bass & treble.

Will see if I can borrow another amp. I have tried them with a 2000W pro amp but spitty treble and fan noise make that a non-starter. However what I will not do is bankrupt myself nor fill the house with more and more amps trying to find the perfect one!
 
The Obs need Amps (not watts).

If you were to change your question slightly, perhaps to 'what is the cheapest decent integrated that will drive Obs' then the answer to your question might be a Sugdon Masterclass. 30 watts but a lot of current...and 3k 2nd hand.

I think you would be very surprised at how good a job a decent HackerNAP and a Chevron Paradox pre would do. There was a chap in the DIY room selling a Hacker for £500.
 
As DV has said, the amplifier you use does seem to be critical with these speakers. Although over you budget there is a member on here who is selling a Plinius integrated, if you must have an integrated. My guess is that that would do the job.
 
d m butcher said:
As DV has said, the amplifier you use does seem to be critical with these speakers. Although over you budget there is a member on here who is selling a Plinius integrated, if you must have an integrated. My guess is that that would do the job.
Click to expand...

I second that
 
DV is right about Arc's and Ob's. In my home i never got Ob's to sound anything other than slow and out of time, even with a Nap300 which was the best i got to, and better than all others i tried. Arc's on the other hand i have had sound great on a Nait2, and positively flying on 135's and 300. That does not mean that Arc's are the better speaker, but maybe the better speaker in many situations. I personally also think Arc's will work in more rooms than Ob's, but that's another matter.
 
gary yeowell said:
. I personally also think Arc's will work in more rooms than Ob's, but that's another matter.
Click to expand...

Obs 1 more room fussy than Obs 2. The whole range thrive on being driven by grippy, open sounding amps and placement in a degree of free space. Even the Compasses I used to own needed 18 inch behind them and at least 2 feet from side walls.
 
Aye but... I have a sneaking suspicion that when I do hear them with that elusive "decent amp" I will still not be terribly happy with them. Sometimes the chase isn't worth it. Plenty of other speakers out there that I've liked from the get-go without sinking tons of time & money into finding the right amp.

If there is anyone near Edinburgh who can bring along a Dynavector or Meridian 559 please shout soon!
 
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