‘Vinyl is more alive than ever’

[abbydog]

No, I didn't think that when LPs were being sold off cheap, because the replacement was being sold at a premium.

CD is being sold off cheap, but the replacement is even cheaper - subscription music where the nearest to turning a profit is the subscription service.

And it's not charity shop prices that are a problem. It was punting them out at below trade price to supermarkets, who then treated music like a packet of bacon, all the while helping to kill off the specialist music stores who could help sustain the business.

Oh look... now supermarkets are dropping CDs, too.

Well, apart from some confusion about whether the problem is subscription services or supermarkets, both outlets were/are supported by the major labels who may, or may not, be intent on killing their own industry.

Whether music is sold in a charity shop for 25p, on Amazon for £1.27, from a vinyl retailer for £25 or via a subscription service, the point surely is that it is sold.

Isn't the biggest challenge facing the industry getting people to pay anything at all for music again?

All the options look expensive when you are sat on 20,000 free tracks.

Then again, a charity shop CD from 1995 with a £15.99 HMV sticker still in place sure makes you think about consumers, royalties, labels, bands and natural justice.

Something good will come from all of this.

 

[Alan Sircom]

Well, apart from some confusion about whether the problem is subscription services or supermarkets, both outlets were/are supported by the major labels who may, or may not, be intent on killing their own industry.

Whether music is sold in a charity shop for 25p, on Amazon for £1.27, from a vinyl retailer for £25 or via a subscription service, the point surely is that it is sold.

Isn't the biggest challenge facing the industry getting people to pay anything at all for music again?

All the options look expensive when you are sat on 20,000 free tracks.

Then again, a charity shop CD from 1995 with a £15.99 HMV sticker still in place sure makes you think about consumers, royalties, labels, bands and natural justice.

Not quite confusion about the outlets, more steps in the timeline for a race to the bottom. The music business seems to engage in rolling self-harm, moving away from specialists to supermarkets, then online and now subs services that successively set the bar ever lower.

I don't see how this could have been overcome, though. Napster changed all this and it was something of an inevitability.

 

[abbydog]

Thanks for comments Alan.

Developments like Bandcamp do give me hope for a brighter future.

 

[merlin]

I wonder what the gross is for an album release on vinyl versus a virtual release on iTunes?

Could we see some enterprising artists releasing their material only on vinyl in order to make some money - given the pittance they get from Apple these days?

 

[Mescalito]

I wonder what the gross is for an album release on vinyl versus a virtual release on iTunes?

Could we see some enterprising artists releasing their material only on vinyl in order to make some money - given the pittance they get from Apple these days?

No.

Chris

 

[Nic P]

We have one of a 3 shop chain called Rise in Worcester. I asked the manager how business was. He said "without vinyl we would just be surviving, but vinyl profits really make the difference". He also said that he had lots of youthful customers for vinyl who eulogised about the sound quality of vinyl. Carnival in Malvern are doing really well and say their shop has eclipsed their online vinyl business ... they also commented on the small but unpleasant amount of rudeness and dishonesty they encountered in their online business, which took the edge off the pleasure of dealing with the majority of their online customers who were delightful. Carnival also say secondhand CDs are very profitable, as does a two shop chain called rapture who have a shop in nearby Evesham. Carnival, Rise and Rapture all say that many regular customers value the browsing experience in an interestingly stocked shop staffed by enthusiasts, and the fact that if there are any problems they can be sorted out face-to-face. I see little future for the likes of HMV, but I think that we may see independents expanding slightly ... and vinyl is fuelling their businesses, as well as the sales of secondhand CDs (the range of secondhand CDs is much more interesting than charity shops and the shops offer much better prices for stock if you accept a credit note).

Nic P

 

[molee]

Rapture in Witney have it well sussed, indie kids buying vinyl mixing it with OAPs buying DVD box sets. Friendly, knowledgeable staff and willing to order in obscure stuff. Unfortunately their Oxford shop is sometimes staffed with posers more interested in the coffee shop punters/smartphones than serving customers. It really comes down to the individuals behind the counter- its just too easy to fall back on the Piccadilly/Norman internet ordering when confronted by a knob with an attitude (sounds a bit like me now I come to read it back).

 

[Nic P]

Rapture in Witney have it well sussed, indie kids buying vinyl mixing it with OAPs buying DVD box sets. Friendly, knowledgeable staff and willing to order in obscure stuff. Unfortunately their Oxford shop is sometimes staffed with posers more interested in the coffee shop punters/smartphones than serving customers. IT REALLY COMES DOWN TO THE INDIVIDUALS BEHIND THE COUNTER - its just too easy to fall back on the Piccadilly/Norman internet ordering when confronted by a knob with an attitude (sounds a bit like me now I come to read it back).

This is a key point (I put in caps) and independents live or die by it ... as do audio & A/V dealers and independent bookshops (etc.) It is something that experts like Mary Portas bang on about. There is no room left on the high street (IMO) for ho-hum service, or ho-hum products offerings. Just look at the restaurant and pub business ... the punters aren't mugs, they want good service, good food and drink with good vfm (which doesn't always mean cheap).

Nic P

 

[Minstrel SE]

I am a music lover and I dont set the prices I see in front of me. If I can come away with a cd for a £1 or Jimi Hendrix live at the albert hall for 30p, Im going to do that.

The obstinate business model of some charity shops means that the vinyl records just sit there until they are dumped. They have read about a "vinyl revival" so every knackered old Pop At Christmas record gets a serious mark up.

Other charity shops get it right. They turnover stock and the money goes into the tills. Its the same choice for every retail outlet in todays market.

Im not trying to rip them off when casually thumbing through the vinyl. I look at the price and decide if its worth it.

 

[Alan Sircom]

Thanks for comments Alan.

Developments like Bandcamp do give me hope for a brighter future.

Yes. I go along with this.

 

[arthur]

...than ever...?

That'd be a mega NO! then.

It's a fad for fogies and some kids who are trying to be cool this week.

 

[MikeMA]

I had a quick look in my local HMV today after noticing what looked like loads of LPs lined up on shelves at the back of the shop. On closer inspection they turned out to be copies of LP covers in picture frames being sold for £14 a piece. There was no vinyl on sale

 

[Jodet]

VIRUS WARNING ON THAT WEBPAGE.

 

[Joe P]

Woo-hoo, records are back and I'm cool as a spinner of records.

Joe

 

[Mike Reed]

Here in Norwich, I was finding plenty of charity shop vinyl to buy, but in the last two to three years things have changed. Some shops have 'valuers' that seem to consider the catalogue price as the market price (Oxfam, Barnardo's); others haven't had any new stock for a year or more, and even the '4 for a £' shops want a pound minimum for m.o.r. dross.

Luckily, we do have a couple of good used record dealers; unfortunately they don't open 'til the afternoon !!!! (Wonder why?)

 

[hockman]

Overhyped.

Personally I stick to used old vinyl and the cheapo CDs that are so readily available compared to expensive black slabs of questionable masterings/pressings.

 

[merlin]

I'm the opposite really Hock.

Much of the old vinyl going cheap in local dealers has horrible groove wear and loss of HF that no amount of cleaning can restore.

The new re-releases from the specialist labels on the other hand never fail to amaze.

I find myself buying new, playing once, then listening primarily to the resulatant needle drop - ever in pursuit of the totally indistinguishable copy .

 

[hockman]

Much of the old vinyl going cheap in local dealers has horrible groove wear and loss of HF that no amount of cleaning can restore.

Agree that this is sometimes a problem. The LP can look pristine but when you play it...Thankfully it does not happen all that often for me.

The new re-releases from the specialist labels on the other hand never fail to amaze.

Well I suppose there's plenty to go around to please BOTH you and me then.

I do buy some new vinyl but very little. I am looking forward to trying out the Music Matters 33rpm jazz series.

 

[abbydog]

Be interesting to see a graph of LP/CD/download sales by value rather than by volume - especially when CD appears to be being dumped on to the market.

 

[Fox]

Context

Vinyl was already in decline before the arrival of CD and the crossover X between CD and vinyl is a mirror image (albeit scaled down) of CDs drop off a cliff and digital downloads rise which, again came after CD sales were trailing off... When downloads start to drop off I will expect a change in a few years to follow while society and technology adjusts. It seems half-generational.

Vinyl is an irrelevant income stream for the "industry" but I get its lucrative to individual licence holders, and its good to see it enjoying a resurgence but I need to see the body twitch a little bit before I can pronounce it revived.

Gods, 93 was grim wasn't it? I recall the ghastly quality new vinyl was back in those days and the shrinking shop shelves and the way you were regarded for asking about if a CD was available on LP.

In a few more years the high street will have to be repurposed, and a good thing too, digital delivery has made most high street firms grim, pointless and rather ugly places to be, everywhere is starting to look like everywhere else.