Harbeth m40.2 vs Graham ls5/5
- Thread starter Peter_Tos
- Start date
Peter_Tos
pfm Member
I miss the scale of the sound. I assume it's a question of speaker size and the ability to reproduce the bass more fully. I think my Harbeth SHL5plus lacks another large woofer, which is present in the m.40mk design.
Allaboutmusic
pfm Member
All depends on the size of the room vs size of the speakers.
Perhaps think wider, I'd try another amp, not sure what source.
Chris81
pfm Member
Why do you think another amp would change the sound in terms of scale? His amp has more power than the SHL5 plus 40th. A.E. can handle.
@Peter_Tos I can only speak of the Spendor SP100R but I wouldn't say that they have had the scale like a Klipsch cornwall for example. The sound was more like a bigger SHL5 with more mid bass punch but not scale (hard to explain) and could be played louder.
@Peter_Tos I can only speak of the Spendor SP100R but I wouldn't say that they have had the scale like a Klipsch cornwall for example. The sound was more like a bigger SHL5 with more mid bass punch but not scale (hard to explain) and could be played louder.
Ayya Khema
pfm Member
Myth
Small speakers still suck in small space next to big speakers
shl5plus just dont have real bass, even in small rooms, they cannot do what a tannoy gold 15” can do
Ayya Khema
pfm Member
Because thats another mtyh in audio nowadays: that even P3ESR will “open” up when fed 100 WPC.
Allaboutmusic
pfm Member
Disagree as large speakers can over power a small room. So a small speaker within its limits ie frequency response, will perform well in the correct size room. As well a large speaker in an appropriately sized room. Even the tannoys you mention won’t perform well in a ball room.
I would disagree on the harbeths too, I have them and in my room have great scale and good bass performance within their limits.
Chris81
pfm Member
That
is a myth.
Ayya Khema
pfm Member
professional acoustician think that large speakers are better acoustically for small rooms.
https://gearspace.com/board/studio-...studio-monitors-even-small-control-rooms.html
For the shl5plus, i found the bass very decent, yet still very lacking. Its a enticing overall package though so if you like your shl5 you might find it hard to find a better speaker around its price range.
tuga
Legal Alien
Professional acousticians (I presume you mean studio designers, perhaps also speaker designers) will recommend high-passing the (3-way) mains and complementing them with a pair of subs.
A paper 15" in a 2-way system covering sub-bass to 1kHz will produce high levels of IMD, it should be band-passed anyway.
John Phillips
pfm Member
I think the point he makes is very good. It's not everything, but it reflects how my experience and thinking has evolved on that particular issue.
I don't know how the Graham LS5/5 and Harbeth M40.2 stack up on matching peak output level to bass extension. However, if you want to reproduce good bass then ISTM human hearing means the lower you go the higher the level you have to reproduce; and simultaneously I believe the loudspeaker's linear volume displacement capability has to increase. It's all very well having a flat response to a low frequency but if you can't cleanly produce the level needed by human hearing at that frequency it's not going to be effective.
I think the BBC version of the LS5/5 was before they developed the higher output LS5/8 and LS5/9. I don't know how the Graham version stacks up versus the BBC or against the M40.2 but listening with the right recordings for a match between low frequency extension and uncompressed output level would be on my auditioning agenda.
tuga
Legal Alien
Ayya Khema
pfm Member
Who said anything to cross a 15” at 1khz? My 15” are crossed at 250hz.
what does high passing the main as anything to what was said about big vs small speakers?
Ive addressed the false claim that big speakers overwhelm small rooms, which is a myth.
tuga
Legal Alien
When you said tannoy gold 15” I thought that you were using it in a more conventional 2-way configuration.
My mistake.
Any speaker, big or smal, will trigger the modes of a typically-sized domestic room. I don't see how a speakers with larger woofers are better in that respect.
Where they are better is in the lower distortion, more extended low-end and higher SPL ceiling.
High-passing the mains and complementing them with subs will allow you to achieve a smoother response at the listening spot. And once you bypass the mains the size of the speaker and woofer become less ot even irrelevant.
Ayya Khema
pfm Member
Ah, true i did mention tannoy! Sorry about the confusion!
Have you read the link at gearspace about large speakers being better? Its already explained quite a bit the acoustic mechanics… https://gearspace.com/board/studio-...studio-monitors-even-small-control-rooms.html
its a myth that larger speakers will overwhelm a small room, its the contrary. Literally the opposit happens.
about high pass, Having did this, i disagree: it wont make your small bookshelve plus sub sound like a 15’ playing up to 200hz.
Its a great solution though along some caveats!
II tried many way to high pass small mains to subs.
I did try with passive in line 1st order high pass via my pass b1 pre amp, did try highpass via mini dsp. Was never happy with the results.
Ayya Khema
pfm Member
https://resolutionmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/The-great-low-frequency-debate.pdf
https://gearspace.com/board/studio-...s-monitor-size-really-matter.html#post7900877
Ill post more as im really intended to bust or at least fully understand that “myth”
tuga
Legal Alien
One of the best systems I have listened to uses a pair of B&W 801Fs in a 14m2 bedroom, 3-way w/ 12" woofer in large sealed bass bin.
Doesn't mean it wouldn't benefit from a dedicated driver working the sub-bass range.
Ayya Khema
pfm Member
Well, 12” imo is the beginning of realistic bass, so not surprised you like em
very likely they could benefit from high pass as well. Ive simply said for me it wasnt the best solution. High passing the mains is def incredibly useful and in some instance the only solution.
Chris81
pfm Member
What you totally miss is that these guys are talking about studio monitors in studio environment = acoustic treated rooms including bass absorption!
With the SHL5 plus in my 14sqm room I have had very high bass mode peaks up to 15db, withe the C7 X.D. to a lesser degree and with the Graham Chartwell LS3/5a even less. Because of the near field listening position I didn't have to turn the volume up that far compared to a bigger speaker in a bigger room with a bigger listening distance.
I have tested even bigger speakers with a 10" midbass driver in that room and not only the room mode peaks were higher, the reverberation time was ridicules high.
Therefore you "it is a myth" isn't true.
BTW: Please show me the part where it is stated (and why) bigger speakers work better in smaller rooms compared to smaller speakers.