Local stacked ESL demo night....
- Thread starter JTC
- Start date
JTC
PFM Villager...
OK, last night was the demo night. Strangely enough, I think the event existed purely for the fun of it - nobody was pushing anything for sale or any service, and apart from buying a beer there was nothing of a commercial nature involved.
Mark, the organiser, had setup the stacked (and recently Quad-refurbished) ESL57s much as they were in the original picture - to the left and right corner in a lovely room. More about the room - it's modest in proportions - maybe 30' x 18' - but with a very high ceiling (which you can see in the uploaded pictures) of maybe 25'. It's wood-panelled, with a stained-glass ceiling salvaged from a 19th century ship. Beautiful. I think the unusual room - mostly hard surfaces, hardwood, glass, wooden floor, even firm leather sofas - contributed rather than detracted from the sound. I won't go all 'hifi review' on the sound, suffice to say that it was a good system - ESLs, after all - that did the usual ESL things, albeit with a larger sweet spot on account of the stacking. The volume levels were also impressive - don't believe anyone who says that ESLs - stacked at least - can't do realistic in-room volumes. There was a hint of the slight 'plasticyness' that I think ESLs can have - my Ardens definitely hit harder - but the imaging and realism was something else. I'm not a stranger to decent sounding systems, but some combination of the ESLs and that room gave a very strong impression of a performance rather than a recording. One CD that was played, an unfamiliar female singer-songwriter's debut - was clearly a beautiful recording, but when played back at realistic levels, it sounded as close to a real in-room performance as I think I've heard from a hifi system. I think that the room played an enormous part in this, since the impression of it being an actual performance hinges partly on being in a room similar in proportion to what I imagine the recording space would have been, and the reflections from the listening room probably enhanced that sense of original recording space (if you get what I mean). I'm not lying when I say that I listened with my eyes closed, and as the track ended I felt like applauding the performer (having forgotten that it was a recording - I didn't, by the way, but I came close). I am fairly sure that this is a very rare experience in hifi, and I'm not suggesting it's an ESL thing so much as a happy accident of system, room and recording. But a remarkable thing nonetheless. I was at a real gig on Saturday past - larger room, more amplification - and the ESLs sounded more like a performance than did the actual performers at that gig.
What occurs to me is that stacked ESLs in a room like this take things in a slightly different direction to where I've gone with my own system. My Tannoys don't do all what the ESLs did, and conversely the ESLs don't do all what my Tannoys do. I am, however, fairly sure that this is mostly down to the different room and circumstances, and would love to hear what my Ardens might do in a room like that. I could, of course, nit-pick some aspects of the ESL performance, but some of that will again be down to the room rather than the system, and therefore be meaningless. Maybe we listened a bit too loud for my liking, and I know that fooling the ear requires realistic volume levels so that definitely would have helped.
My regret was that I wasn't able to stick around longer, as I'd agreed to be home by a certain time and in any case I'd been up since 0530 and was beginning to flag. Middle age!!!
Mark, the organiser, had setup the stacked (and recently Quad-refurbished) ESL57s much as they were in the original picture - to the left and right corner in a lovely room. More about the room - it's modest in proportions - maybe 30' x 18' - but with a very high ceiling (which you can see in the uploaded pictures) of maybe 25'. It's wood-panelled, with a stained-glass ceiling salvaged from a 19th century ship. Beautiful. I think the unusual room - mostly hard surfaces, hardwood, glass, wooden floor, even firm leather sofas - contributed rather than detracted from the sound. I won't go all 'hifi review' on the sound, suffice to say that it was a good system - ESLs, after all - that did the usual ESL things, albeit with a larger sweet spot on account of the stacking. The volume levels were also impressive - don't believe anyone who says that ESLs - stacked at least - can't do realistic in-room volumes. There was a hint of the slight 'plasticyness' that I think ESLs can have - my Ardens definitely hit harder - but the imaging and realism was something else. I'm not a stranger to decent sounding systems, but some combination of the ESLs and that room gave a very strong impression of a performance rather than a recording. One CD that was played, an unfamiliar female singer-songwriter's debut - was clearly a beautiful recording, but when played back at realistic levels, it sounded as close to a real in-room performance as I think I've heard from a hifi system. I think that the room played an enormous part in this, since the impression of it being an actual performance hinges partly on being in a room similar in proportion to what I imagine the recording space would have been, and the reflections from the listening room probably enhanced that sense of original recording space (if you get what I mean). I'm not lying when I say that I listened with my eyes closed, and as the track ended I felt like applauding the performer (having forgotten that it was a recording - I didn't, by the way, but I came close). I am fairly sure that this is a very rare experience in hifi, and I'm not suggesting it's an ESL thing so much as a happy accident of system, room and recording. But a remarkable thing nonetheless. I was at a real gig on Saturday past - larger room, more amplification - and the ESLs sounded more like a performance than did the actual performers at that gig.
What occurs to me is that stacked ESLs in a room like this take things in a slightly different direction to where I've gone with my own system. My Tannoys don't do all what the ESLs did, and conversely the ESLs don't do all what my Tannoys do. I am, however, fairly sure that this is mostly down to the different room and circumstances, and would love to hear what my Ardens might do in a room like that. I could, of course, nit-pick some aspects of the ESL performance, but some of that will again be down to the room rather than the system, and therefore be meaningless. Maybe we listened a bit too loud for my liking, and I know that fooling the ear requires realistic volume levels so that definitely would have helped.
My regret was that I wasn't able to stick around longer, as I'd agreed to be home by a certain time and in any case I'd been up since 0530 and was beginning to flag. Middle age!!!
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Chris Marshall
pfm Member
What an amazing room!
foxwelljsly
Me too, I ate one sour too.
Hey, why not ask if you take your Tannoy's down for a demo?
seagullsnacker
iGull
Sounds super fun…only heard Quad ESL57s once and was very impressed…don’t think I’d ever be able fit big panel speakers in my living room…the Tannoy Eatons are almost too big for it
JTC
PFM Villager...
Hahaha, too big and heavy!!! Probably Westminsters would suit the decor better though?
Mike Reed
pfm Member
Great pic's and write-up, JTC. That's a most interesting (and old) room, and I would've thought the shape and panelling would have influenced things. I am surprised at the volume levels you mentioned, partly because of the enormous space and partly by the ESLs' limited capacity for loudness.
You don't mention the amplification involved, and was it just a CD source?
You don't mention the amplification involved, and was it just a CD source?
I see they were using a pair of 'very average' Quad 303, and one of those 'dreadful' Quad 44 pre (a 'hopeless' early one, as well).
Technics 1200 (G, I hope)
I hope they were using 'official' Quad-approved B&Q lawnmower mains cables to connect the speakers.
Imagine how it would have sounded with 'proper' gear
brecklandboy
pfm Member
Great stuff ! -thanks very much or posting your mini review, JTC
I'm guessing that the ( slightly) exaggerated backward tilt of the top pair of speakers in the stacked array is designed to direct more sound upwards into the atrium of the room . Incidentally, did you experiment with near field / far field auditioning and also with sitting and standing listening positions in the room, as I suspect the received sound would have been quite different according to the option selected.
I'm guessing that the ( slightly) exaggerated backward tilt of the top pair of speakers in the stacked array is designed to direct more sound upwards into the atrium of the room . Incidentally, did you experiment with near field / far field auditioning and also with sitting and standing listening positions in the room, as I suspect the received sound would have been quite different according to the option selected.
brecklandboy
pfm Member
Based on my experience with stacked Quads, that's saved you a lot of potential angst !
Mike Reed
pfm Member
I actually bought a new 44 pre. to power my RCA mono's back in the day, having had its awful predecessor. Yes, the 44 was dull as ditchwater, as I discovered. It disappeared in a house move a few years later, so it wasn't even reliable enough to stay around !
I'm surprised, like you, that such crappy amplification could produce such a result.
chartz
If it’s broke fix it!
Crappy?
That’s how Quad demoed and sold their speakers with for decades…
Perhaps not the last word in detailing and sound staging, yes.
Old Quad amplification can indeed be dull, but that’s with their original caps or bad contacts.
Nothing of the sort with my OTA ESLs and the 33 or 34/303 or 306.
This said, my valve setup (my own design) definitely sounds better still.
That’s how Quad demoed and sold their speakers with for decades…
Perhaps not the last word in detailing and sound staging, yes.
Old Quad amplification can indeed be dull, but that’s with their original caps or bad contacts.
Nothing of the sort with my OTA ESLs and the 33 or 34/303 or 306.
This said, my valve setup (my own design) definitely sounds better still.
