david ellwood
Kirabosi Kognoscente
Depends on the parts.
The Karousel has landed
- Thread starter Bob Edwards
- Start date
Suffolk Tony
Aim low, achieve your goals, avoid disappointment.
Having recently changed amplification etc., I began to realise my LP12 wasn’t sounding quite as good as it did, and so I thought I’d treat it to a new Karousel bearing.
After dropping the deck off to Signals, I got a call from Andy to tell me that, as is quite a common occurrence, my old outer platter didn’t quite fit over the new inner one, the latter being part of the new bearing assembly. Being a tightwad and not wishing to lash out 160-odd quid on a new platter, I went over to signals to have a look, confident that, if it was only a small amount (A “Gnat’s”, as us engineering-type folks like to say), I could fettle it to fit.
Sure enough, if you tried to lower the outer platter over the inner upside down so it was easier to hold, it wouldn’t quite drop down. But then I tried turning it the right way round, and it dropped down further. Which meant the sides of the hole in the outer platter weren’t parallel. Strange…Andy retrieved a couple of scrap platters from his store & showed me one that was astonishingly bowed, so I asked him to find a suitable straight-edge and, sure enough, my old platter was also slightly bowed. Damn…So having realised a new platter was in order, we discussed possible reasons for this distortion.
In my opinion, it’s something to do with the gradual release of machining tensions over the (in my platter’s case) 35-odd years it’s been sat on the inner platter, with a large percentage of its weight in its periphery. But it still fitted on the original inner platter, due I suspect to a combination of greater machining tolerances, plus gradual corrosion and chafing between the mating surfaces. Incidentally, my old bearing was completely and comprehensively knackered - the worst Andy had ever seen!
Needless to say, the LP12 now sounds absolutely, stonkingly excellent! Not sure what’s contributed the most to this, it matters not, but a twinge of sadness as I realise my LP12 has finally achieved true 'Trigger’s Broom' status.
After dropping the deck off to Signals, I got a call from Andy to tell me that, as is quite a common occurrence, my old outer platter didn’t quite fit over the new inner one, the latter being part of the new bearing assembly. Being a tightwad and not wishing to lash out 160-odd quid on a new platter, I went over to signals to have a look, confident that, if it was only a small amount (A “Gnat’s”, as us engineering-type folks like to say), I could fettle it to fit.
Sure enough, if you tried to lower the outer platter over the inner upside down so it was easier to hold, it wouldn’t quite drop down. But then I tried turning it the right way round, and it dropped down further. Which meant the sides of the hole in the outer platter weren’t parallel. Strange…Andy retrieved a couple of scrap platters from his store & showed me one that was astonishingly bowed, so I asked him to find a suitable straight-edge and, sure enough, my old platter was also slightly bowed. Damn…So having realised a new platter was in order, we discussed possible reasons for this distortion.
In my opinion, it’s something to do with the gradual release of machining tensions over the (in my platter’s case) 35-odd years it’s been sat on the inner platter, with a large percentage of its weight in its periphery. But it still fitted on the original inner platter, due I suspect to a combination of greater machining tolerances, plus gradual corrosion and chafing between the mating surfaces. Incidentally, my old bearing was completely and comprehensively knackered - the worst Andy had ever seen!
Needless to say, the LP12 now sounds absolutely, stonkingly excellent! Not sure what’s contributed the most to this, it matters not, but a twinge of sadness as I realise my LP12 has finally achieved true 'Trigger’s Broom' status.
Bob Edwards
pfm Member
I've had my Karousel'd LP12 back for a little over a week now.
To me, it's the single biggest improvement/upgrade to the LP12 I've ever heard, eclipsing the Lingo, Cirkus, and Keel.
I'm not sure how the improvements relate to each other, but the Karousel seems to significantly lower the noise floor. This has two dramatic (to me) effects. First, the deck is retrieving more information across the audio band, and presents it in that organic way the LP12 has always been known for. I can hear little bits of percussion and strings and overtones and everything else that I've not heard before. Put another way, the Karousel provides a significant improvement in clarity. It's quite stunning. Second, the Karousel seems to extend the LP12's reach and grip at both frequency extremes. Bass is even more tuneful and engaging than with the Cirkus, and reaches deeper with better definition and weight. Higher frequencies (I'm happy to say I can still hear up to 16-17k at the age of 54!) are similarly extended and more pure sounding - piano overtones are less blurred and more present, closer to what a real piano sounds like. Triangles and violins - hell, all instruments in the upper ranges are similarly served.
The Karousel also gives the LP12 an even greater sense of ease and authority. It just doesn't sound like it's working hard or getting confused (pardon the anthropomorphisms). And it does all that without giving up the tunefulness or emotional impact that many of us have an LP12 for.
I know I added the Trampolin2 and a rebuild by the best in the business when it was installed, and those shouldn't be discounted (service in particular), but having the chance to hear a Karousel vs a Cirkus vs a old black bearing it's astonishing to hear the differences and the improvement the Karousel brings.
If anyone has been on the fence, here's a vote to just go for it. Brilliant.
To me, it's the single biggest improvement/upgrade to the LP12 I've ever heard, eclipsing the Lingo, Cirkus, and Keel.
I'm not sure how the improvements relate to each other, but the Karousel seems to significantly lower the noise floor. This has two dramatic (to me) effects. First, the deck is retrieving more information across the audio band, and presents it in that organic way the LP12 has always been known for. I can hear little bits of percussion and strings and overtones and everything else that I've not heard before. Put another way, the Karousel provides a significant improvement in clarity. It's quite stunning. Second, the Karousel seems to extend the LP12's reach and grip at both frequency extremes. Bass is even more tuneful and engaging than with the Cirkus, and reaches deeper with better definition and weight. Higher frequencies (I'm happy to say I can still hear up to 16-17k at the age of 54!) are similarly extended and more pure sounding - piano overtones are less blurred and more present, closer to what a real piano sounds like. Triangles and violins - hell, all instruments in the upper ranges are similarly served.
The Karousel also gives the LP12 an even greater sense of ease and authority. It just doesn't sound like it's working hard or getting confused (pardon the anthropomorphisms). And it does all that without giving up the tunefulness or emotional impact that many of us have an LP12 for.
I know I added the Trampolin2 and a rebuild by the best in the business when it was installed, and those shouldn't be discounted (service in particular), but having the chance to hear a Karousel vs a Cirkus vs a old black bearing it's astonishing to hear the differences and the improvement the Karousel brings.
If anyone has been on the fence, here's a vote to just go for it. Brilliant.
Chris
pfm Member
So, living in the Canaries and being therefore, as there are no dealers here, undoubtedly one of the greatest self taught Linn gurus in my house, if I ever get a Linn dealer to flog me a Karousel without in fact fitting it and proceed to install it myself as I have done with all my "upgrades" ever since it arrived here in 1983, I will be running the chance of it not fitting my 38 year old outer platter for whatever reason. Guess I won´t be bothering unless one could just buy the karousel and not bother with the new inner platter which presumably would be a waste of time.
Last edited:
James
Lord of the Erg\o/s
My LP12 is 34 years old. I bought the Karousel and fitted it myself. The outer platter that came on my pre-Cirkus deck fitted perfectly. The Karousel is farking brilliant.
Just do it.
Where/who did you buy it/from? I assumed it was dealer fit only?
James
Lord of the Erg\o/s
It depends on the relationship you have with the dealer. I manage to convince mine that I would save him the angst of me standing watch over him as he fitted the bearing.
Excellent, thanks I shall discuss with him.
Nero
Re: Tired
Peter tried to ‘persuade’ my outer platter to fit, but it wasn’t having any of it, but he gave me a good p/ex on a new one. Now I don’t have to see my grubby fingerprints going round and round.
Biggest problem he had was the fact that the XLR connectors from the Urika foul the suspension if you’re using the balanced outputs (which I do). A skilled ‘adjustment’ with a file sorted it in the end. Maybe Linn don’t have too many customers using balanced connections.
Yes, the Karousel is something else. Listening to The Church with One Bell right now. Exquisite.
Chris
pfm Member
so this would confirm there are certain outer platters that don’t size up to certain Karousel inner platters. Now how can that be so, we are talking about Linn, n’est-ce pas ?
Nero
Re: Tired
I think @Suffolk Tony nailed in his post above. Perhaps that’s why Linn suggest it’s a dealer fit. But yes, it does seem strange that the tolerances are so wide
Suffolk Tony
Aim low, achieve your goals, avoid disappointment.
In retrospect, I'm not sure the bowing effect on my particular platter would have much of an adverse impact on sound quality, being pretty small. It would be easy for anyone with some fettling knowledge to ease out the hole in the outer platter to fit. I guess I just wanted a nice new platter... I was astounded by the huge amount of bowing present on the one at Signals, quite remarkable!
david ellwood
Kirabosi Kognoscente
I think unless your pre is a very long way from your turntable the unbalanced outputs of the Urika are the preferred option.
Suffolk Tony
Aim low, achieve your goals, avoid disappointment.
I also use the balanced outputs from the Urika - the plugs are nicer. I originally fitted them myself & maybe the plugs are different, but I didn't encounter any problems with the suspension.
david ellwood
Kirabosi Kognoscente
Seems a shame to introduce a transformer into the circuit if you dont have to.
Tony L
Administrator
It is remarkably easy to bend a Linn platter. Far easier than one might think. Poor transit packaging, a small drop onto carpet etc will do it. I’ve owned a lot of second-hand Linns and an absolutely perfect platter is a tough find IMO. A lot of dealers are, IMHO, utter klutzes, and I suspect a fair few actually left the shop like this!
Suffolk Tony
Aim low, achieve your goals, avoid disappointment.
Only if it adversely affects sound quality. Balanced for better noise rejection over my longish cables.
Suffolk Tony
Aim low, achieve your goals, avoid disappointment.
I could understand torsional distortion, but doming is another matter. Internal stresses induced by the manufacturing process, & heat effects, the more likely culprits.
Darren L
Egalitarian
It must be fairly soft material if a drop onto carpet can bend one.
Tony L
Administrator
I’ve never bent one myself, but I have seen several bent ones with absolutely no signs of damage (dents, scratches etc) so I can only assume an impact against a soft surface is sufficient.
PS I’m only talking minor bends here obviously, say 0.5-1mm run-out. I just have the mindset that always spots this sort of thing! There is also a balancing issue with many LP12s; if you get down to the deck’s level you can often see the arm-board ‘breathing’ once per revolution, again a really, really tiny amount, but it exists on many.