Yep, confirmation bias. Look at the multi-page thread on a certain ‘new’ DAC brand. D&D speakers are much discussed so. Look at the massive ‘brick odyssey etc.
Certain brands attract more attention, usually, negative but I don’t want to go into that
New Turntable Purchase in the last 10 years...
- Thread starter GT
- Start date
Certain brands attract more attention, usually, negative but I don’t want to go into that
Darren L
Egalitarian
That's probably it in a nutshell and why GT found there was 'insufficient interest' to continue, I'm sure the increase popularity of streaming devices and online digital services has had a big impact on the sales of other sources, quite often I've read on PFM in the past couple of years where the author states they are mainly streaming music and in some cases have decided to sell their hardware and sometimes their CDs or Lps.
At the same time Vinyl sales have went up , now I understand some buy them to make money, some buy to have a collection of 'vinyls' , some are happy with a budget record player but there is still people buying good record players, from entry level hifi upwards.
Tony L
Administrator
I agree, though I would argue that market was a very specific niche within a niche. I’d be interested to know how many turntables SME, NAS and Linn sell at the upper end of the market within the UK. My suspicion is quite a few. If Stereophile is to believed there is certainly an ‘oligarch class’ of ultra-expensive boutique audio and by the fact it exists suggests someone somewhere is buying it. Michael Fremer runs a £30k arm on a £100k+ turntable IIRC, I suspect he’s not using a budget cart or phono stage with it either. That market clearly exists, the products wouldn’t be there to buy if it didn’t. It surprises me just how much competition there is if you want to spend say £30k+ on a vinyl front end. There really is a huge amount of choice.
To counter that I also think that the post-internet audio market is very different and huge swathes of potential high-end audiophiles are buying and lovingly restoring (or paying others to do so) the very best kit of the ‘golden age’. I’ve certainly lost all interest in new audio, and that is nothing to do with budget. It just doesn’t interest me! If I wasn’t running a TD-124 that I spent a lot of money and five or so years time restoring I’d almost certainly be using a deck at the NAS Dais, Orb or Kuzma level by now. I’m certainly no newcomer to decent turntables.
As such I think there are two very distinct types of audiophile these days; those who want to slap a big wodge of cash on a dealer’s counter and be guided through every step, and those who prefer to steer things entirely themselves selecting what they feel is the very best from an audio timeline dating back well over half a century. I can understand both mindsets, though obviously I’m firmly in the latter category myself.
MikeMA
pfm Member
Well, I've just bought a Michell Gyrodec SE complete with Techno arm and new AT33PTGII, so I'm firmly with the majority in the <£3k category, or possibly even slightly above with the cartridge included.
I bought it because I think it's a good turntable - by that I mean good at playing records - but I also also enjoy the aesthetics of the thing which is important to me, like owning a good well designed gun or camera: it can't just work, it has to look the business too! I think that's also why I like valve kit, if I'm honest.
Edit: I've just remembered I also bought the HR power supply, so with the cartridge this takes me into the <£5,000 bracket.
I bought it because I think it's a good turntable - by that I mean good at playing records - but I also also enjoy the aesthetics of the thing which is important to me, like owning a good well designed gun or camera: it can't just work, it has to look the business too! I think that's also why I like valve kit, if I'm honest.
Edit: I've just remembered I also bought the HR power supply, so with the cartridge this takes me into the <£5,000 bracket.
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Darren L
Egalitarian
I don't really get many clicks or pops, I know there's a bad one at the start of side A of Tea for the Tillerman caused by (I think) someone dropping the needle but that's about it, okay not all pressings are of equal quality but then not all digital recordings are of equal quality either.
I enjoy using a record player, I enjoy the set up procedures and the ritualistic aspect as well as loving listening to Lps, (I like Cds & tapes too)
But that's part of the hobby, a bit like my bike, it's not just about the listening or riding, it's also about the owner involvement, the maintenance & servicing, adjustment, fine tuning and polishing, lol.
There is truth in that, but very little gets sold here. Most get sold to Japan and Asia, Hong Kong in particular. I heard this from a very reliable source who knows the American importer (both North, South and Canada) for Techdas turntables. How any Techdas Air Force One turntables (that is the first Techdas turntable) would you believe were sold in the whole of the Americas over the first 4 year period?
Tony L
Administrator
I personally know two people who have/have owned a SME 20, one who owned a 10, another who owns a Dais, I could go on. One of the Wigwam crowd has an extraordinary collection of high end decks; TechDas, SME etc, another has one of those bonkers things with the contra-rotating platters. One of pfm’s past-moderators (Markus, RIP) had a Verdier. As such this class of deck do certainly exist in the UK, but not in large numbers. I’m sure you may be right more exist elsewhere in the world, but in Japan, Hong Kong, South Korea etc I’d have thought you were far more likely to see lovingly restored EMTs, Shindo 301s etc at the real high-end. They are what I would pick too.
PS How many TechDas sales in the US?
Tim Jones
pfm Member
I bought a SME 20/3 in 2015, but a bit like Colin L, didn't really use it enough. I sold it four years later and bought a P6 (which I'm very happy with).
Have to confess, although I wouldn't necessarily put SME into this class (well...perhaps more so after their price increases), that I am increasingly dubious about the mega-decks such as TechDas, etc. If I had my time again, I'd probably opt for a s/h LP12 or a Garrard that I could tweak and fettle about with.
Have to confess, although I wouldn't necessarily put SME into this class (well...perhaps more so after their price increases), that I am increasingly dubious about the mega-decks such as TechDas, etc. If I had my time again, I'd probably opt for a s/h LP12 or a Garrard that I could tweak and fettle about with.
wylton
Naim and Mana member
@G T Audio I'm gobsmacked to hear you say that there has been no interest in turntable purchase since 2010. You only have to look in this forum alone to know otherwise. Sure, there's an interest in classic turntables, but if you look at the wide range of turntables that other dealers stock & the new Naim Solstice at £16K would only reach the half-way point in terms of price!
Amber Audio
This is the Day
Tony L
Administrator
I see you can get it in bright pink and have a four letter word of your choice printed on the armboard…
PS It is interesting as it suggests Naim decided to undercut what I assume is their main competition by £3k. They are both complete vinyl replay solutions so broadly comparable.
Darren L
Egalitarian
Fish?
gustav_errata
pfm Member
So a drop-off in number of people buying expensive turntables since ~2010, you say? Coinciding with a financial crash, government-imposed austerity, and the development of entire generations of young people who are likely more concerned about whether they'll be able to own a house before they retire than whether they can buy a turntable that costs more than the used car they bought to truck themselves to the job that they're unsure of being able to keep for more than a year or two?
Curious...
Curious...
Tony L
Administrator
Very few if any young folk will be playing in this sector. I’d put money on the core customer base for £15k+ record players being the 60+ who have paid off the mortgage, have a great pension and don’t fancy dying with a few £100k left in the bank. Many of them saw little if any impact from austerity, in fact well invested savings seem to be doing very well at present.
The audio market has always been good ears and little money in younger years vs. the reverse as one gets older. The extremes certainly seem far greater now which I suspect is just a reflection of an increasingly unequal and divided society. The rich are getting richer, the poor poorer.
pocketkitchen
Registered User
I’m not really sure that the PF sample size is large enough to draw any conclusions from. We are a pretty small, geeky bunch and many of the good folks here are more than confident enough to (and indeed profess to) buy second hand. Not really representative of the target market who will be a mixture of us geeks, well-heeled music lovers/Hifi enthusiasts and wealthy people who just want whatever people tell them is the best, whether that’s Naim, Linn, SME, McIntosh, whatever.
For myself, I was very happy to buy a new Well Tempered Amadeus 254 with a DVXX2 nk2 recently. It’s excellent and although I could easily have bought and maintained a second hand deck, or fettled my PT, I decided to buy new for the first time since I bought my LP12, back in 1990. I don’t have the kind of money that makes that sort of purchase insignificant but it will be my last deck.
For myself, I was very happy to buy a new Well Tempered Amadeus 254 with a DVXX2 nk2 recently. It’s excellent and although I could easily have bought and maintained a second hand deck, or fettled my PT, I decided to buy new for the first time since I bought my LP12, back in 1990. I don’t have the kind of money that makes that sort of purchase insignificant but it will be my last deck.