Domestic vaccine passports

[Deejay]

Lots of media reporting that a series of pilot tests for Covid passports are being planned.

As many as 72 MPs from across the political spectrum have opposed their use. So what are your thoughts? Thought I’d set up a poll.

 

[gintonic]

where the wgaf option

 

[Stunsworth]

Well, the government’s saying it’s not going to happen, so it’s inevitable. It may allow venues to open sooner than otherwise.

I think it’s definitely going to happen for international travel.

 

[mandryka]

It's a bit like a drivers licence. Everyone agrees that you need a drivers licence to drive a car, if not there would be a lot more accidents. This is the same idea for pubs: you need a licence in the form of a vaccine passport to enter a pub or go to a show because, if not, there'll be a lot more COVID. Simples.

I think the more interesting questions are to do with data protection - given that the licence is in the form of an app.

 

[Cav]

Does having the vaccine guarantee you cannot catch Covid?
Does having the vaccine guarantee you cannot spread Covid?

If the answer either one or both is "no" (and I believe it is no) then a vaccine passport is worthless.

And what of those who for good and valid reasons cannot have the vaccine? Automatically excluded from many aspect of normal life.

This could be the thin edge of a very fat wedge. You fear a fascist state? This is one of the many ways they begin. No papers, no freedom of movement or association in your own country.

 

[Cav]

It's a bit like a drivers licence. Everyone agrees that you need a drivers licence to drive a car, if not there would be a lot more accidents. This is the same idea for pubs: you need a licence in the form of a vaccine passport to enter a pub or go to a show because, if not, there'll be a lot more COVID. Simples.

I think the more interesting questions are to do with data protection - given that the licence is in the form of an app.

It is nothing like a driving licence.

 

[mansr]

Does having the vaccine guarantee you cannot catch Covid?
Does having the vaccine guarantee you cannot spread Covid?

If the answer either one or both is "no" (and I believe it is no) then a vaccine passport is worthless.

Nothing is 100% guaranteed. That doesn't mean it has to be worthless.

And what of those who for good and valid reasons cannot have the vaccine? Automatically excluded from many aspect of normal life.

The certificate could simply state that the person has received whatever amount of vaccine is medically advisable. Then it would be up to those unable to get the vaccine to choose whether to take the risk of mixing with people, most whom will have been vaccinated.

More generally, if a vaccine certificate ("passport") could speed up the restarting of the economy, it might be a good idea. It really depends on what having one or not would mean for individuals. Obviously, such a system would have to be for a limited time only, say 12 months.

 

[Bob McC]

Well, the government’s saying it’s not going to happen, so it’s inevitable. It may allow venues to open sooner than otherwise.

I think it’s definitely going to happen for international travel.

The question was about domestic passports.

 

[Bob McC]

It's a bit like a drivers licence. Everyone agrees that you need a drivers licence to drive a car, if not there would be a lot more accidents. This is the same idea for pubs: you need a licence in the form of a vaccine passport to enter a pub or go to a show because, if not, there'll be a lot more COVID. Simples.

I think the more interesting questions are to do with data protection - given that the licence is in the form of an app.

There is no requirement in the UK to carry your driving licence.

 

[Darth Vader]

Your papers please..........

Chilling,

DV

 

[Bart]

It seems a reasonable precaution, if you can’t have the vaccine then you could get an exemption, if you haven’t been called for one yet you need a negative test. Some people will undoubtedly inconvenienced unfortunately. The measure could be dropped as soon as it is judged safe to do so. If you do think politicians can’t be trusted to do this and/or will employ more ‘fascist’ measures then there’s no way I’ll change your mind.

 

[Stunsworth]

The question was about domestic passports.

Which I addressed in the first sentence.

 

[mansr]

There is no requirement in the UK to carry your driving licence.

You are required to possess one if driving on public roads. Maybe you're not legally required to actually carry it with you, but it sure helps if you get pulled over.

 

[Stunsworth]

Does having the vaccine guarantee you cannot catch Covid?
Does having the vaccine guarantee you cannot spread Covid?

It’s not 100% effective, but surveys have shown it to be 100% effective against death and hospitalisation - in other words if you’re unlucky enough not to be totally immune you’ll have a mild version of the disease.

As far as I’m aware jury’s still out about whether you can spread Covid when you’ve been vaccinated, but since the protection offered by the vaccine is so high if you can still spread Covid it’s obvious that mixing with others who have been vaccinated is less dangerous than mixing with those that haven’t.

 

[sean99]

I would have voted yes, but then I read this
https://www.medpagetoday.com/blogs/zdoggmd/91881
and now I'm a not sure.

The TL/DR
"Every single drop of our energy moving forward should be going into getting vaccines into as many willing people as possible, educating people on how these vaccines work and why you really ought to get them, and letting them make decisions and getting them the vaccines. If we do that, we get to herd immunity or something that looks like herd immunity effectively, dropping hospitalizations, dropping deaths."

 

[stevec67]

Does having the vaccine guarantee you cannot catch Covid?
Does having the vaccine guarantee you cannot spread Covid?

If the answer either one or both is "no" (and I believe it is no) then a vaccine passport is worthless.

And what of those who for good and valid reasons cannot have the vaccine? Automatically excluded from many aspect of normal life.

This could be the thin edge of a very fat wedge. You fear a fascist state? This is one of the many ways they begin. No papers, no freedom of movement or association in your own country.

It doesn't have to be a guarantee. A helmet and leather jacket won't guarantee that you won't be killed in a motorcycling accident, but it's a good deal better than a T shirt.

 

[sean99]

It doesn't have to be a guarantee. A helmet and leather jacket won't guarantee that you won't be killed in a motorcycling accident, but it's a good deal better than a T shirt.

I feel that this isn't the best analogy. Protective motorbike gear may reduce the chances that you will become an avoidable burden on society / NHS (fewer folks with severe brain injuries, fewer skin grafts/leg surgeries required), so could be mandated, especially in a society with universal healthcare.

I'm not sure it's the same with COVID passports, unless the effect is to cajole the unwilling into being vaccinated - but perhaps that's better done with a carrot than a stick (pay people to be vaccinated).

 

[Thorn]

Does having the vaccine guarantee you cannot catch Covid?
Does having the vaccine guarantee you cannot spread Covid?

If the answer either one or both is "no" (and I believe it is no) then a vaccine passport is worthless.

And what of those who for good and valid reasons cannot have the vaccine? Automatically excluded from many aspect of normal life.

This could be the thin edge of a very fat wedge. You fear a fascist state? This is one of the many ways they begin. No papers, no freedom of movement or association in your own country.

Stuff and nonsense. Provided it's a temporary measure it addresses a serious problem. Those who genuinely can't have the vaccine, and not the tinfoil hat brigade, can carry an exemption certificate. Why the hell should the majority be put at risk for your illusory idea of freedom.
It makes a change, though, to see Tories worrying about a fascist state.

 

[Stunsworth]

I feel that this isn't the best analogy. Protective motorbike gear may reduce the chances that you will become an avoidable burden on society / NHS (fewer folks with severe brain injuries, fewer skin grafts/leg surgeries required), so could be mandated, especially in a society with universal healthcare.

But you -are- required to wear a crash helmet and have insurance.

 

[Dozey]

I feel that this isn't the best analogy. Protective motorbike gear may reduce the chances that you will become an avoidable burden on society / NHS (fewer folks with severe brain injuries, fewer skin grafts/leg surgeries required), so could be mandated, especially in a society with universal healthcare.

I'm not sure it's the same with COVID passports, unless the effect is to cajole the unwilling into being vaccinated - but perhaps that's better done with a carrot than a stick (pay people to be vaccinated).

You can have a carrot AND a stick.