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Brexit: give me a positive effect... XI

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The world’s biggest economy with which we actually have an existing trade surplus and remember- “we are Atlanticists”, it was all about “the Anglosphere”, well it was up until this morning anyway.
 
TheDecameron said:
Yes, I hadn’t realised a US trade deal would be four fifths of FA, ( been taking adult numeracy lessons from our local Kipper have you?) that’s why the last three Tory governments have been vigorously pursuing one and talking about it all the time. They can actually add up. I’m afraid ‘la la la, not listening’ isn’t the right answer here.
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You've misquoted me. I said that a US trade deal was worth five eighths of four fifths of FA. I'm advised that I was actually wrong. The correct figure is four fifths of five eighths of FA.
 
I liked the way honourable members were doing their bit to oil the wheels of trade with the new administration in Washington,


Andrew Bridgen, Conservative MP for North West Leicestershire, accused Biden of not having read the Good Friday Agreement (and called him ‘Sleepy Joe’, borrowing a nickname from Donald Trump).

IDS told the Times: “We don’t need lectures on the Northern Ireland peace deal from Mr Biden. If I were him I would worry more about the need for a peace deal in the USA to stop the killing and rioting before lecturing other sovereign nations.”

..and emboldened by these titans of international politics, other midgets came forth from the Tory back benches to put down the incoming US President. Very wise.
 
Allowing NI to remain in the customs union for goods was a concession by the EU. After all, NI is part of the UK, which has left the EU.

The UK part of the deal, signed by Boris Johnson, is to ensure that appropriate checks take place on goods entering NI from the rest of the UK.

The UK needs to honour it's part of the bargain, not unilaterally announce it's going to extend the grace period in NI.
 
It’s never ending Brexit. The Tories take four years to get their finger out. Johnson gets his oven ready, tariff free trade deal then tries to go back on his side of it and threatens to break international law if he doesn’t get what he wants. This is going to keep the hapless Lord Frost in work well beyond his sell by date. Sounds like they need a clean break, no more being pushed around by the EU.
 
droodzilla said:
Allowing NI to remain in the customs union for goods was a concession by the EU. After all, NI is part of the UK, which has left the EU.

The UK part of the deal, signed by Boris Johnson, is to ensure that appropriate checks take place on goods entering NI from the rest of the UK.

The UK needs to honour it's part of the bargain, not unilaterally announce it's going to extend the grace period in NI.
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I think others might argue that it was more annexation than concession. It also provides the ECJ with potential inroads into the rUK.

How do you define 'appropriate'? The checks were deemed necessary for 'goods at risk' of being forwarded into the Republic. In the EU's somewhat twisted overinterpretation, this means everything. It is perfectly possible, for example, for two pork chops, a bag of potatoes and half a kilo of brussels sprouts to be purchased in an Ulster Tesco by a resident of the Republic to be carried back across the border to prepare for dinner. But you have to ask yourself, is the interpretation of this bag of shopping as 'at risk', in the balance of things, really appropriate? I don't know that the EU is acting in the best interests of anyone at all with this kind of painful pettiness, and it is not honouring either the word or the spirit of the Belfast Agreement either.

Johnson of course should never have signed the wretched NIP. It should be binned before the real damage starts, and some grown up decency and common sense come into play.
 
I have now had 2 of my German customers ask me to transfer our UK stock to our US warehouse and ship from there rather than ship direct from the UK to Germany. That a pretty damning indictment of how bad our deal with the EU is.
 
eternumviti said:
Any EU response would be legally bound to be proportionate. I wonder what sanctions they would dream up in response to the perfectly legitimate movement of sausages and cabbages to Tesco Belfast, or of English, Welsh - or even Scottish - mud on the tyres of tractors or spuds
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It's not that kind of mud that's important, more the muddiness in people's thinking if they believe that is the real issue at stake :)

From a legal perspective, it really won't be that difficult to justify measures designed to stop uncontrolled movement of goods from part of the EU to a non-member State - Ireland to the post Brexit UK. If they don't do that, then you have a ready back-door route for all manner and volumes of British goods into Europe and vice versa.
 
eternumviti said:
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Johnson of course should never have signed the wretched NIP. It should be binned before the real damage starts, and some grown up decency and common sense come into play.
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It does seem like we are still in the retribution phase, from both the EU and UK sides.
Just as certain Tories can play to their audience by making robust challenges to the EU, there will be politicians in EU-land who recognize the value in poking blame at the UK.
There will be a lot of blame which needs to be redirected in the difficult post-covid recovery era.

Does this ongoing bad blood put another nail in the rejoin option in the years to come? I think so. I can see things getting even more bitter. Witness the Tory politician suggesting that a ban be placed on bottled water being brought in from the EU.
 
kabayiri said:
It does seem like we are still in the retribution phase, from both the EU and UK sides.
Just as certain Tories can play to their audience by making robust challenges to the EU, there will be politicians in EU-land who recognize the value in poking blame at the UK.
There will be a lot of blame which needs to be redirected in the difficult post-covid recovery era.

Does this ongoing bad blood put another nail in the rejoin option in the years to come? I think so. I can see things getting even more bitter. Witness the Tory politician suggesting that a ban be placed on bottled water being brought in from the EU.
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That tactic would have a limited shelf life, enough people will eventually wonder how oven ready this agreement was. Also, getting into bitter disputes when you are the smaller party is pretty stupid and may please a few blowhards but won't age well generally. The US is not going to be riding to the rescue either, far from it.

COVID (or rather a successful NHS vaccine roll out) is providing cover for an awful lot more Brexit nonsense that will pile up. Johnson, it should be remembered, was famously described by his former employer as saying anything that will bring pleasure to whoever is in front of him at the time, irrespective of whether he is forced to reverse it almost immediately. The "deal" is a pretty good example. A catchy headline and everything important and more tricky kicked into the long grass for others to sort out.

It will take more than a clueless, butt sucking failed diplomat to resolve this mess and you can see why Gove ran a mile.
 
SteveS1 said:
That tactic would have a limited shelf life, enough people will eventually wonder how oven ready this agreement was. Also, getting into bitter disputes when you are the smaller party is pretty stupid and may please a few blowhards like Barron and ET but won't age well generally. The US is not going to be riding to the rescue either, far from it.
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It doesn't matter whether it will age. Nobody on here can dictate the behaviour of those in power. Nor can Keir Starmer, when it comes down to it.
European history is littered with conflict of one kind or another. I don't see any reason to suggest that this has ended.
I still can't see how a rejoin campaign would gather momentum, set against a turbulent background. The tabloid press will rip into it.
 
kabayiri said:
It doesn't matter whether it will age. Nobody on here can dictate the behaviour of those in power. Nor can Keir Starmer, when it comes down to it.
European history is littered with conflict of one kind or another. I don't see any reason to suggest that this has ended.
I still can't see how a rejoin campaign would gather momentum, set against a turbulent background. The tabloid press will rip into it.
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Of course it matters how it will age. Pleasing the current crowd won't necessarily please future ones. Pressure will grow for the relationship to improve, so concessions and new agreements have to be made - it really is as simple as that. The sort of long term attrition you describe is less sustainable for the smaller party.
 
Well EV, you couldn’t as they say, make it up-

“Johnson of course should never have signed the wretched NIP. It should be binned before the real damage starts, and some grown up decency and common sense come into play”.

Mr.Johnson (a stranger to the qualities you describe above) was one of the great architects of Brexit, the British Prime Minister that negotiated Brexit. He even put his magnificent deal before the electorate and (in England at least) they ran to him as he put his arms around them. All those heartland Brexit and Labour seats came over to him.

Are you delegitimising the Prime Minister’s achievement? The people of Hartlepool and beyond instructed him to gerritdun and he gorritdun. You got what you asked for and now you’re getting it good and hard.
 
SteveS1 said:
That tactic would have a limited shelf life, enough people will eventually wonder how oven ready this agreement was. Also, getting into bitter disputes when you are the smaller party is pretty stupid and may please a few blowhards but won't age well generally. The US is not going to be riding to the rescue either, far from it.

COVID (or rather a successful NHS vaccine roll out) is providing cover for an awful lot more Brexit nonsense that will pile up. Johnson, it should be remembered, was famously described by his former employer as saying anything that will bring pleasure to whoever is in front of him at the time, irrespective of whether he is forced to reverse it almost immediately. The "deal" is a pretty good example. A catchy headline and everything important and more tricky kicked into the long grass for others to sort out.

It will take more than a clueless, butt sucking failed diplomat to resolve this mess and you can see why Gove ran a mile.
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Economically stupid, yes. Politically stupid... not so sure.

After all, stoking bitterness, grievance and division is Tory way.

Maybe, in Brexit, they stumbled upon the perfect infinite grievance machine?
 
droodzilla said:
Economically stupid, yes. Politically stupid... not so sure.

After all, stoking bitterness, grievance and division is Tory way.

Maybe, in Brexit, they stumbled upon the perfect infinite grievance machine?
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Yes but it depends how the former bleeds into that latter. Take the 1% gratitude for health workers.....there will be more of that to come. I'm sure some attempts to rabble rouse will be kept going, 'twas ever thus and we have a significant section of the electorate that are very receptive to that.

I had realised there was a significant level of anti-immigration sentiment and general xenophobia but I'm the first to admit that it exceeds anything I ever thought possible here. I'm more concerned at what happens with the Union to be honest, which is more than any Tories seem to be. A Tory England coupled with dwindling family ties has me seriously considering a permanent move for the first time.
 
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