SteveS1
I heard that, pardon?
That isn't what I said, of course. Anyone beholding to Lansman, McCluskey and co., will never win back power.
Next Labour Leader II
- Thread starter Sue Pertwee-Tyr
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That isn't what I said, of course. Anyone beholding to Lansman, McCluskey and co., will never win back power.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
McC I understand, but what has Lansman done other than to support the evil one? He always came across as perfectly reasonable to me
SteveS1
I heard that, pardon?
I can hardly believe I'm having to say it but, Momentum is not a great sell outside of one part of the Labour party.
You see, I think the task of outing the Tories is tough enough. How about electing a leader that isn't associated with people or groups already proven to be pretty toxic outside of the faithful?
BTW if 'seeming reasonable' to you or some other Labour activists was the measure of electoral prospect, we wouldn't be in opposition.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Lessons need to be learned all round, and that includes those who’ve been joining in the all round slagging off of the only viable opposition to the Tories for the last half decade and are then surprised when that opposition is weakened. If the Tories are ever going to be challenged successfully the opposition needs to present a united front. For that to happen, not only the Corbynites, but also the everyone else is a Thicko Racist Remainers and the militant moderates who spent so much time energy and money on undermining their own democratically elected leader that yet again they forgot to oppose the Tories.
Corbynites have admitted their mistakes. If the Thicko Racist Remainers and the Militant Moderates can do the same, we might enable an effective opposition to the lies, manipulations and the distortions that we are about to face in increasing levels from Johnson and Cummmings.
SteveS1
I heard that, pardon?
"Militant Moderates" - love it. LOL. Care to point me toward Corbynites admitting their mistakes? Last I looked the media bias (like it isn't always), the Brexit policy wasn't Leave enough and being undermined by people not on board with Len & co. was the extent of "admitting their mistakes".
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
They can't. Such people want their own way 100% and will not budge on anything. They were told time and again that labelling people who voted differently to them as racists, thicko, little-Englanders etc would not help their cause and so it turned out. They have learned nothing from what has happened with Brexit and will continue to undermine Labour. The tories must adore these people, they are doing a great job furthering the tory cause.
SteveS1
I heard that, pardon?
Corbyn and McCluskey proved to be gifts to the Tories. Labelling people? You mean "Thicko and Militant Moderate" are terms of endearment? Let's look back to the only scoreboard that matters - oops.
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
Not at all. However, I'm sure history will show the intransigence of hard-remainers did their position and the Labour Party no favours at all since 2016, indeed helping the tories along to the hard brexit, imo. The main party of remain, the LibDems wouldn't even support ousting the tories for a 2 week temporary govt if it was led by Corbyn. What was that all about? I also think it's as obvious as can be that pinning derogatory labels on people is not going to persuade anybody to change their mind. Quite the opposite in fact. There will be digging in of heels and so it was.
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ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Examples of Corbynites admitting mistakes are easy to find, if you can’t admit that spending nigh on 5 years undermining the only viable opposition to the Tories, then acting surprised when that leader is undermined, is a mistake, then Boris Johnson can look forward to a weak and divide opposition for a long time to come.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
You have misrepresented me again. What I said was ‘everyone who disagrees are Thicko Racists type Remainers’. Militant Moderates is a term about as endearing as ‘far left’, ‘hard left’, ‘Stalinist’ etc that the Militant Moderates have been using to misrepresent and malign what was, judged against similar political positions in other countries, a moderate set of policies. In the end the Militant Moderate campaign was extremely successful, if by success you mean contributing to a Boris Johnson majority
SteveS1
I heard that, pardon?
The people in control of the party and had the leadership lost the election. There was no militant moderate campaign, just people who thought the strategy and some of the policy decisions would lead to a bad result. They were wrong were they?
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
There was no campaign against Corbyn? Really?
russel
./_dazed_and_confused
The problem was he was never really much of an opposition leader, his performance on PMQ was dire and in interviews he was just yawn inducing and uninspiring, why did you ever think he would win?.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
There was no campaign against Corbyn? Really?
The social and economic health of the country would very likely benefit from some militant moderates given many (non-militant) moderates from left and right have given up on politics leaving the nutjobs from the extremes to get on with trashing things. When it gets bad enough the currently disengaged public will likely reengage with politics and dismiss the nutjobs but a lot of damage is almost certain to have been done by then. Bring on the militant moderates I say to stir up the general population and get them to reengage with politics.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Those who voted Tory stuck by their principles and got what they voted for. Those who joined in the continual sniping and undermining of Corbyn, have to accept some of the blame for Corbyn being undermined and, beyond enjoying the great slagging off their own leader, got the precise opposite of what they wanted
SteveS1
I heard that, pardon?
Does pointing out that Corbyn was a toxic choice for gaining the voters needed to win count as "sniping"? Whenever the far left have control of the party we lose bigly. Yet you think repeating this will yield a different outcome.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Yes, we know all that. When are other actors going to admit that some tactics they used were also a mistake that contributed to a Johnson majority. Until they do, that majority will only face an opposition that continues to be divided and argue amongst itself
Seanm
pfm Member
This is 100% correct. After years of telling people that literally anyone other than Corbyn would be 20 points ahead in the polls they are already s——ing on all the candidates, including Starmer. Nothing will do for them except the re-instatement of Tony Blair in person and total control of the party at every level.
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