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Ortofon 2m Bronze vs Nagaoka MP 500

Tony L said:
If that was actually the case they would not be in business! Also bare in mind that Nagaoka make styli and cantilever assemblies for many other manufacturers (the vast majority of high-end brands buy-in tips/assemblies, and Nagaoka are as I understand it one of the major Japanese suppliers). I’d love to see a list of who they supply, but my bet is most will claim a normal 1000-2000 hour lifespan.
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Possibly, but having gone through two MP500 stylus's/tips , they wearnt far off what they claim. Sure they still sound ok after this time and will plod along for a long period, but that real 'magic' is held within those hours.

One thing you have to get right with an MP500 is the VTA and azimuth, either one is even slightly wrong you can decimate it rather quickly.It'll still sound 'nice', but it wont ever have the real magic. Yes, I butchered one. Yes, I nearly cried.
 
Well, I'd take the MP 500 any day, as the sound it makes is much more like music, than the rather false 'hi-fi sheen' produced by the Ortofon! In fact, there are few modern Ortofon cartridges I could live with, save perhaps the Cadenza Bronze. For me, it pretty much begins and ends with their SPUs!

Marco.
 
alanbeeb said:
Well I stuck with the 2M Black over the Nagoka MP500, I found the Nagoka was just dull and boring. The 2M black is remarkable IMO - but my phonostage can set its capacitance down to 47 pf so maybe that helps.

I also have a 2M Bronze stylus assembly which I can swap into the 2M black body (I'm pretty sure the Bronze use the same body and generator) and it just slightly rolled off and less separation between musical strands than the black. The Black is superior.

However, if balls-out rock is your thing..... save your money and just get the 2M Red - its utter joy with hard rock.
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Your comparison of the Bronze/Black equals mine. I used a Bronze for 4 years (and was very happy with it), the Black is surprisingly much better.

I've had no problems with set-up or surface noise, just a very dynamic sound with great separation.

I find the Nag's dull and boring, always have since I was a boy.

Buy a Hana. lol
 
Tony L said:
I’ve had many MC carts over the years including some expensive ones, and find much to like in both cartridge types to be honest.
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I've 'downgraded' from a Lyra Kleos to 2M Bronze, mainly to reduce my paranoia about trashing an expensive cart on a wobbly ARO - but also mostly to take advantage of the fully adjustable MM phono stage on my preamp. I find that I don't miss the Lyra at all. It's safely put away in its box. The 2M Bronze does 95% of what the 7x more expensive MC does. If I should find a SUT of decent quality, I might bring out the Kleos to play again.
 
Tony L said:
If that was actually the case they would not be in business! Also bare in mind that Nagaoka make styli and cantilever assemblies for many other manufacturers (the vast majority of high-end brands buy-in tips/assemblies, and Nagaoka are as I understand it one of the major Japanese suppliers). I’d love to see a list of who they supply, but my bet is most will claim a normal 1000-2000 hour lifespan.
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Yes indeed, including a lot of the current Goldring range. Sad in many ways given Goldring's history.
 
Robert,

Are the Goldring 2000 IM series essentially Nagaoka generators then?

I do like their .gifs...

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I'm not familiar with the MP500, but from memory it is one of the better measuring carts, period, price notwithstanding (channel sep, frequency response etc).

I own the bronze - FWIW, in direct comparison with digital recordings of same provenance, there's only the slightest warmth in bass region that sets it apart. If it's good clean vinyl you can almost forget which is which if you don't bother making an effort. This signature is likely an anathema to some. It sounds to me fairly neutral through the spectrum. I imagine loading is somewhat important here.
 
barryb said:
I'm not familiar with the MP500, but from memory it is one of the better measuring carts, period, price notwithstanding (channel sep, frequency response etc).

I own the bronze - FWIW, in direct comparison with digital recordings of same provenance, there's only the slightest warmth in bass region that sets it apart. If it's good clean vinyl you can almost forget which is which if you don't bother making an effort. This signature is likely an anathema to some. It sounds to me fairly neutral through the spectrum. I imagine loading is somewhat important here.
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Your description of the 2M Bronze pretty much sums up what I hear Barry. There's a slight coolness in the mids that seems to only show up on certain recordings in my system. The Nagaoka isn't a huge chunk of cash, so I think I'll just have to take the plunge and see how things go. Thanks for your comments.

Brian
 
Got the MP-500 this afternoon; install took about 1.5 hours. All I can say is WOW! Right out of the box, it easily beats the Bronze in my system. Warm and full sounding, with more detail and insight, this is exactly what I was looking for. The MP-500 really makes the Bronze sound mechanical/analytical in comparison. I can only imagine what it will sound like when it's run in. Should have done this long ago...

Happy days ahead...
Brian
 
Reading on the Nagaoka webpage stylus will require replacement after 150-200 hours, either that's gonna be an expensive MM cartridge or it's a misprint.
 
amazement said:
Reading on the Nagaoka webpage stylus will require replacement after 150-200 hours, either that's gonna be an expensive MM cartridge or it's a misprint.
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I mentioned this earlier on thread. It does not need replacing at this point but it is out of optimum performance..having had three mp500 styluses on my mp500, im pretty well versed in how the sound degrades, which it does...but to most it will still be listenable
 
Not blown away with my MP-150 to be honest, don't get me wrong it isn't terrible but I'd be reluctant to trade up the Nag line based on this. One good thing is that it seems totally oblivious to a zillion different loading options I've tried.
 
Yes Craig, started out without any paddle in the fluid then tried the thickest paddle, can't say as I can tell much difference to be honest.
 
The Chronicals said:
I mentioned this earlier on thread. It does not need replacing at this point but it is out of optimum performance..having had three mp500 styluses on my mp500, im pretty well versed in how the sound degrades, which it does...but to most it will still be listenable
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In what way(s) does the sound degrade? Did it become unlistenable for you? The reason I ask, is because I've read countless discussions regarding the MP-500 and nobody claimed to hear any sort of sound degradation at the 150-200 hr mark. Did you have the cartridge measured/tested with an oscilloscope to verify what your ears were telling you? Why would you persist with the MP-500 if it acted this way?

I certainly don't refute your claim; you heard what you heard. I just need to know what to listen for.

Brian
 
rough edges said:
In what way(s) does the sound degrade? Did it become unlistenable for you? The reason I ask, is because I've read countless discussions regarding the MP-500 and nobody claimed to hear any sort of sound degradation at the 150-200 hr mark. Did you have the cartridge measured/tested with an oscilloscope to verify what your ears were telling you? Why would you persist with the MP-500 if it acted this way?

I certainly don't refute your claim; you heard what you heard. I just need to know what to listen for.

Brian
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Im not a measurebator no. You cant measure sound fully, we merely have a form of measurements, which isnt completely true, exact blah blah (hence why there are differents in cables, Dacs etc that don't show up on current measurement scales) so there is no point measuring anything, its futile.

It definitely does not become unlistenable at all, but the same traits I have noticed ever time with the MP500 once I've had it a while is there are a few changes that you some will notice, some wont. There is no point 'listening out' for it because thats just asking yourself yourself for annoyance. If you can hear it, you can, if you can't , then great, you get to have a cheaper affair with the 500.

I've had three stylus's , I know the MP500 sound, I know the changes when it happens. I've moved to a Hana SL now, which for me, is all of the MP500 but with the more floaty MC style of presentation, which I prefer and expecting it to last a little longer in its prime.

I wouldn't worry yourself, just enjoy your cart.
 
matt j said:
Not blown away with my MP-150 to be honest, don't get me wrong it isn't terrible but I'd be reluctant to trade up the Nag line based on this. One good thing is that it seems totally oblivious to a zillion different loading options I've tried.
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You really cant compare a 150 with a 500. Thats like comparing a Ford Focus with a Rolls Royce.
 
The odd thing is there are many who suggest it takes aroud 50 hours to get the 500 run-in, so that would make for an optimal life of 100-150 hours! I’m sorry, but I’m just not buying - any good quality diamond micro-line (or other large contact area) tip playing clean vinyl should have a life of many multiples of that. You’d get more than 200 hours out of a saphire tip!
 
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