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Sound quality at gigs

snaphappybob

snaphappybob

pfm Member
It's some time since I was a regular gig goer and one that sticks in my mind is the one that put me off attending them as often as I did in the past. Radiohead, Blackpool 2005 if memory serves. As a huge fan I was massively disappointed at the sound believing that the ballroom was the culprit and up until last Thursday, 21st Feb I would state this as the case.
Last Thursday I was watching Slowdive, whom I am also a fan of, and I was really disappointed at how the sound was just that, sound. The instruments were indistinct and the vocals messy and equally so. We were further forward than I would have chose at the O2 Liverpool owing to my 19 y/o son wanting to be closer to the stage. Now my anecdote of the "ballroom effect" seems dated. Perhaps it is just the miserable old bugger in me who didn't enjoy standing for two and a half hours in a mist of vapes but surely the sound techs should be capable of making what I assume is pretty decent kit sound half decent.
Last year I travelled to Paris to see Sarah McCoy and was more than happy with the sound in the smallish venue of about 500 seated so it can be done.
Next month I'm going to see The Smile, Yard Act and Bill Ryder Jones and up until Thursday was really looking forward to doing so. Prior to these I'm going to invest in a pair of loops to reduce the sound in the hope that this improves the perceived quality and reduces the post gig ear ringing. I just hope that I can reignite my love of live music as it was a real passion in the past.
I'm interested to know whether any of you esteemed or un-esteemed (I'm not fussy) folks have had to reset your expectations regarding what you're going to get from live music?
 
Live music usually sounds terrible. I don't think it's the venue, good sound guys should be able to work around that but most of them seem to be clueless.

Small gigs are often the best but it's a lottery. Most fans just don't seem to care about the sound quality. It's about the experience, the alcohol, the noise. As long as it's loud and the room is jumping they're happy.

Saw Level 42 last year and couldn't hear the bass! Best sound I've heard at a gig, bar none, Genesis tribute band 'The Musical Box'. Those guys are good.
 
I don’t go to a crazy amount of gigs. But when I do Im generally disappointed. There’s always some dick who’s 6ft 4 who stands in front of me. It’s too hot, there’s no fresh air and the sound is crap. But yeah, I go for the experience. And the overpriced t-shirt.
 
steve1ooo said:
I really would not want my system to sound like any live gig I've been to.
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I often think that my stereo sounds like a good PA. By that I mean that it is coloured but has the impact and involvement you get from good live music. It's not 'invisible' but you feel like there are real artists behind it.

I always wear ear protection now. I didn't when I was younger. Stupid. I've heard some crazy loud gigs.
 
I remember seeing Chris Isaak, All About Eve, Thomas Lang, Ausie Pink Floyd, The The amongst many others in the 90s and was always impressed how good they all sounded. I take the point that audiences aren't that arsed about the sound but it's a disappointment to me. I suppose you can please some of the people all the time, all of the people some of the time but...
 
I generally enjoy live gigs and experience great sound quality. Recent gigs include Springsteen in Hyde Park, Billy Cobham in Jazz Cafe and around 5 other acts during the London Jazz Festival. None were too loud. Interesting that at Billy Cobham moving two metres changed the sound from soup to clarity. Now, taking my young niece to her taste in bands is a different story and ear protection essential.
 
For me, it’s the wheel, sliced bread and my ER-20 earplugs. I’ve owned Etymotic and Elacin branded ones, don’t think they differ significantly. Almost like having my own personal volume control.

Most gigs still sound wretched but at least they’re quieter. As a ready reckoner, if the audience applause is as loud as the band I don’t bother using them. The occasional gig sounds great, though, e.g. Wilco at Albert Hall in Manchester, when Jeff Tweedy explained to the audience that they couldn’t play any louder because it would just sound a mess.

I too suffer from the curse of the Assgned Tall Person at standing gigs though. Earplugs can’t help with that.
 
snaphappybob said:
I remember seeing Chris Isaak, All About Eve, Thomas Lang, Ausie Pink Floyd, The The amongst many others in the 90s and was always impressed how good they all sounded.
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Now you mention it, I do think gig sound was better years ago. I went to gigs regularly from the mid eighties on and the sound was typically decent. Today it's unusual for it to be good.
 
The only way I found of negating the innevitable echo up-down of large ballrooms/ old cinema domed ceilings.. is to get right up the front so you hear the amps/ drums etc -before- the sound shoots up. Brixton Academy is the worst culprit I found, appalling ackustics if you're in the middle floor area. The echo smears everything, dreadfully. Or watch from balcony, but even here the sound is compromised. Twds the back of Brixton Ac, under the balcony, stops the echo but the sound is badly compromised here. An awful place to hear music. It was a cinema, nuff said. The Albert Hall had exactly this problem, probably worse due to the uniformity & bigger ceiling dome, that they were forced to add an acoustic barrier/ series of suspended trampoline whatnots. I believe the result was only partially successful: many say it's still a poor place acoustically, others finding areas acceptable for sound quality.

My heyday was at the Garage, Highbury corner: low ceiling, 2k capacity or so max, no bouncing sound nasties/ all soaked up well so you had complete trust you could hear properly. Smaller the venue, likely better the sound too imo. REM in a big NEC place, 88 I think, was a waste of time due to sound reflections smearing the exoerience. Most fans though.. completely oblivious; so the more you know of basic acoustics, the more you criticise of course!

Capt
 
steve1ooo said:
I really would not want my system to sound like any live gig I've been to.
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Surely, live events are more about the atmosphere. Coping with enormous undistorted sound levels, esp. set up on a pro tem basis, mean that studio or recorded sound must be far far better from an s.q. p.o.v. Of course, one can alter vol. levels too. When watching gigs/concerts/whatever, familiar material is seldom performed as well as when recorded, though there are rare exceptions.

I think that the two methods of listening to music are not a matter for comparison; certainly on sonic terms. I remember a Fairport gig in a Canterbury hall in the early seventies was excruciating and we were right at the back! Volume over verisimilitude; the human misconception.
 
bigfish786 said:
I don’t go to a crazy amount of gigs. But when I do Im generally disappointed. There’s always some dick who’s 6ft 4 who stands in front of me. It’s too hot, there’s no fresh air and the sound is crap. But yeah, I go for the experience. And the overpriced t-shirt.
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You forgot all the other dicks in front of you who have stuck their mobiles in the air to film the gig.

Sound quality has improved over the years but quite often it is just too loud. I'm sure that Led Zeppelin at Earls Court damaged my hearing!
 
I work in live music, and the best sounding system I have EVER heard (and I've heard hundreds, possibly thousands) was an outdoor set-up using Danley horns. It beat every line-array system I've heard hands down. The boxes were also a 10th of the size of a line-array capable of corresponding SPL and coverage. So far they have failed to catch on and also have some other issues that make them difficult to use but wow did they sound good...
 
Long time since I’ve been to the Blackpool ballroom to a gig but remember them all sounding awful in there. I was going to go to that slowdive gig actually, forgot about it. They are very much a wall of sound on record so that can get really messy live. So much of the live experience is the environment and I much prefer smaller venues these days. Saw the smile in Manchester on the 1st album tour and that really put me off standing in a crammed huge room with people constantly pushing past, having to stare through the 6 foot 7 person in front of you, pissed farts behind you etc, just unpleasant these days. That said, Dave Clarke is playing Liverpool on Good Friday and I’m damn tempted to go to that for old times techno till 4am sake :)
 
I’ve given up rock/amplified gigs now. Haven’t seen anything since well before covid and I’ve no intention of returning. I’ll still attend classical or jazz as long as unamplified, but that’s it.

I’ve never liked live rock sound, which may come as a surprise given I was in a rather loud indie band and have played hundreds of gigs. It is always too loud, always a mess, especially once one is listening through ear-plugs, which I have done since my early twenties (as soon as the penny dropped it was so dangerous). Back when I did go to gigs my approach was similar to The Captain’s above; get right at the front centre so you are listening to the acoustic drums and backline, not the amplified mess of the PA which now fires out behind you. I’ll take that every time even if things are a little unbalanced and you can’t hear the vocals. I’m obviously describing smaller gigs here, I’ve never had even the slightest interest in big venues or stadiums. I always caught bands early on when they were playing to a few hundred in small clubs.

I accept PA systems have improved pretty much beyond recognition since my day, but even so I just don’t want to be in that environment. It is always too loud to listen safely without ear-protection, and even with at 60 with pretty good hearing I’m just not taking any more risks. I’m done! I’ve seen some truly amazing stuff, and I can still hear my hi-fi well at low levels. I’ll take that as a win!
 
paulfromcamden said:
Actually 600 : )
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Really? Well there we go. Has the number now though been reduced, health & safety etc.. & in early 90's it was 2k? Who knows. Anyway the smaller the show the more likely you'll get acceptable sound.

I think the biggest venue I've been to, with good sound, is Union Chapel N1 ish.

I wonder whether early cathedral & church designers had acoustics as a primary aspect: maybe those numerous arches aren't just structural & are there to break up reflected soundwaves like the silly Albert Hall trampolines.

Capt
 
I have never been to any big (stadium type) gigs, mainly as I don't particularly like the type of bands that play them. Apart from the Stones in Hyde Park in the '60s. Even at Glastonbury I frequented the smaller venues. Earplugs are obligatory for me anyway, and they did mean I could stand in the empty area in front of the speakers at smaller gigs!
Nowadays we only go to very small gigs, minimally amplified. Some of them do have good sound, but some (Laura Moody in Exeter) can be excruciating.
 
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