Second tonearm, second phono stage?

[Coda II]

Finally got around to fitting a cartridge to a second tonearm on the Dais this week. Although the option has always been there, the detachable headshell on the SME arm has, so far, been the easier option if I fancied a change; swap the headshell, adjust the tracking weight and off we go again. However, having recently fitted (and very much enjoying) an Ortofon SPU, that swap process got a bit more involved - cartridge and tracking weight substantially different, and a slight adjustment to arm mount distance were enough to think that it really was time to get the second arm set-up.
The AO PU7 I have had for many years, for much of that time it had an AT33PTG/II, that one is probably past its best, so for now the PU7 has a ZYX 4D mounted, as something rather different in presentation to the SPU.
Phono stage has been a Tron Convergence (also for many years) and swapping the leads from one arm to the other, though not too much of an inconvenience, is just a bit of a faff to do regularly.
So the question is, do I add a second phonostage, and if so, what?
Currently pre, phono, and power are all valve - so a second valve phono?
I have a Rothwell step-up that it is not in use currently, so that could be used with a MM stage?
There are phono stages with multiple inputs as well.
What do people running two tonearms do?

 

[Gwantommo]

I have a similar set up with 2 arms on a Dias. I just swap the tonearm cables around into the phonostage/SUT, takes a minute.

 

[Locheeboy]

I had a FONS CQ30 lying in a cupboard for over 20 years ( of course , promising maself “Ah’ll get this sorted next week…) I upgraded to an Inspire Monarch, adding a Tisbury Domino phono stage ( an excellent wee box of tricks) . After a few years, finally got round to sorting the FONS. Sold the Tisbury and bought a Pro-ject Tube Box DS 2, to enable 2 turntables running. The Tube Box enables 2 tonearm or 2 turntables through button selection on the front of it. Been using it with the Monarch/ Inspire X200 Mk.3 12” tonearm, while the Fons had a rewire and new motor fitted.Gonna set it up when I get the tt back next week.

The Pro-ject is a superb stage (hybrid ). Input 1 and 2 buttons have a “memory” so that settings for 2 cartridges/arms can be entered Had a pair of Mullards in my valve box for years, so put them in the Pro-ject, in place of the stock valves. They’re beginning to sing now and sound superb. I would recommend trying to get a listen to one. Even up against the Tron, costing 3/4 times more.IMO. That’d give you the chance to have two decks /arms available with the press of a button…

ps I am also, valve pre,power and hybrid phono.

pps , they’re a lot cheaper than Henley Audio’s rrp now and even less second hand…

Henley Audio | Tube Box DS2 Phono Stages | Welcome to Henley Audio

The Tube Box DS2 is an audiophile-grade phono pre-amplifier with a valve output stage. Taking over from the hugely successful Tube Box DS model, the DS2 expands on its predecessor’s ability both technically and aesthetically. To learn more, head to our website today. Henley Audio - Quality Hi-Fi...

www.henleyaudio.co.uk

 

[uncl_nigel]

In the days when I was foolish enough to run three turntables (out of six available) I had a single phono stage with three individually configured inputs. The single earth post was a pain, though.

After realizing that I only really listened to my favorite turntable (SME 20/2a) I streamlined things and now have an ultra silent and very musical single input Moon 810 phono stage instead of the potential hassle of a ten valve affair from a brand that is very problematic to repair here in France. I sold two turntables, gave two but somehow there's still a Sony TTS3000 with 12" Ittok gathering dust in a cupboard.

 

[Darren L]

Like yourself I have a Dais with two tonearms mounted. Hadcock 242se/Shure V15v-mxr and Brinkmann 10.0/Hana ML.
My preamp has an onboard valve phonostage with an input sensitivity of 3.0mv, this allows me to run a MM, MI or HOMC (another PFM 'r who has the same pre reckons there's enough 'headroom' to run a lower output MC) and indeed I could add a SUT or headamp.

I bought a secondhand Project DS2 'tube' phonostage as a stop gap until I find the 'right' phonostage for me. Build quality is OK, as I'd expect for the price but the sound is really
pretty good, the top end is perhaps a little bright or pinched but that's perhaps the alloy cantilever on the ML, it has a great range of onboard adjustments for gain, Impedance, etc, all accessible via the front panel, I've a funny feeling I'm going to have spend considerably more to better it and retain the adjustability.

There is quite alot of multiple input phonostages available nowadays at various prices, quite alot of them feature laden with different EQ settings being quite popular. At least you have a good 'benchmark' to do comparisons.

 

[matt j]

Could you not just put them through a cheap little input/source selector and switch that?

 

[Amber Audio]

I run multiple TTs, Luxman stage with 3 inputs or a Cyrus with 4 inputs, got fed up messing with cables, fiddly earth leads and multiple stages. The Lux and Cyrus are different flavours, if I had to choose one it’d be the Lux EQ-500.

 

[Kostas]

I would do both when my funds allowed. Ideally two arms with detachable headshells and at least one SS phono stage.

...What do people running two tonearms do?

Two SS phono stages with my two arm TT. Since I want two TT's in my system another SS phono stage will be added at some point for ease of use.

My system has a tube preamp, power & phono stages are and will be kept SS.

 

[Mike Reed]

Dais here with 12" PU7 and N.A. Ace Anna. When I had Naim, the Superline was an absolute pain (even to plug/unplug !). I bought the top EAR pre (912) to go with my 509 mono's and both arms (with fixed headshells, unfortunately (?)) are now connected to the TWO phono inputs; job done !

If you already have a Tron and like it (of course) get another of similar quality. Problem is that it'll take up two inputs on you pre. To my mind, quality of ph/stage is paramount whether you have £2K m/coils or £5K+ ones, though the latter actually demand a good matched stage.

You don't say which valved amplification you have, but it's obviously not EAR though others on here do have one of their pre's, I think

I have to say, although it doesn't have much correlation with the o.p.'s request, that I could not revert to a pre. without meters. They simply give you such an insight into what is coming from your sources incl. relative input voltages. I often use my pre. with can amp only and the info. these meters give is just so helpful.

 

[Nagraboy]

If you have an arm with detachable headshell, if you swap cartridges don’t you need to rebalance the arm each time? The OP mentioned only altering tracking force. I’ve got an SME M2-9R and an SPU A-style cart (SPU Wood A) but would like to get a mono EMT TMD015 too. Would I need to add weight to the EMT to equal the SPU?

 

[Coda II]

Dais here with 12" PU7 and N.A. Ace Anna. When I had Naim, the Superline was an absolute pain (even to plug/unplug !). I bought the top EAR pre (912) to go with my 509 mono's and both arms (with fixed headshells, unfortunately (?)) are now connected to the TWO phono inputs; job done !

If you already have a Tron and like it (of course) get another of similar quality. Problem is that it'll take up two inputs on you pre. To my mind, quality of ph/stage is paramount whether you have £2K m/coils or £5K+ ones, though the latter actually demand a good matched stage.

You don't say which valved amplification you have, but it's obviously not EAR though others on here do have one of their pre's, I think

I have to say, although it doesn't have much correlation with the o.p.'s request, that I could not revert to a pre. without meters. They simply give you such an insight into what is coming from your sources incl. relative input voltages. I often use my pre. with can amp only and the info. these meters give is just so helpful.

Another reason for getting the PU7 running again was your regular reminders how good it is!
Does @Rockhopper (whose Dais I now have) have the same EAR pre? I know he talked about multiple inputs.
System is all Tron: Seven line, Convergence phono, Atlantic power. There is a Seven pre with internal phono, but not a matching Atlantic pre with phono.

 

[Coda II]

If you have an arm with detachable headshell, if you swap cartridges don’t you need to rebalance the arm each time? The OP mentioned only altering tracking force. I’ve got an SME M2-9R and an SPU A-style cart (SPU Wood A) but would like to get a mono EMT TMD015 too. Would I need to add weight to the EMT to equal the SPU?

I was using an Ortofon Cadenza Bronze and ZYX 4AD (both bought s/h!) on matching headshells. They were close enough in weight that there was enough adjustment available just using the outrider weight on the 3012R to get both to track at their correct weights. The SPU would mean moving the main counterweight as well, so just that bit more invloved.

 

[Mike Reed]

Another reason for getting the PU7 running again was your regular reminders how good it is!

Well, yes, but not just sonically; ergonomically as well (the 12" version, i.e,) Oddly, Rockhopper couldn't get along with his, although maybe it was a 9/10" one, as he kept knocking the bias wheel (he said !). That quick clip, one procedure, non scarring rest is an absolute delight after the dozens or arms I've had (incl. the Ace Anna, Five and Artemiz of recent decades

Does @Rockhopper (whose Dais I now have) have the same EAR pre?

A.f.a.I.k, yes, he still has the 912/509 line-up; Congrat's about buying his Dais; no idea why he changed horses, unless, like me, age and degradation make the prospect of Dais maintenance foreboding (sorry Russell, if you're reading this !

 

[Coda II]

Well, yes, but not just sonically; ergonomically as well (the 12" version, i.e,) Oddly, Rockhopper couldn't get along with his, although maybe it was a 9/10" one, as he kept knocking the bias wheel (he said !). That quick clip, one procedure, non scarring rest is an absolute delight after the dozens or arms I've had (incl. the Ace Anna, Five and Artemiz of recent decades

A.f.a.I.k, yes, he still has the 912/509 line-up; Congrat's about buying his Dais; no idea why he changed horses, unless, like me, age and degradation make the prospect of Dais maintenance foreboding (sorry Russell, if you're reading this !

I had thought that settling up and cueing a second 12" arm might be an issue, actually that was all pretty straightforward. The two awkward things are: getting a brush to the stylus to clean it (yes, dust, even with wet clean records) and the fact that the acrylic box cover I have now only *just* fits!

 

[Coda II]

Could you not just put them through a cheap little input/source selector and switch that?

Two things come to mind:
Sorting out the separate earth wires, and the fact that, especially for MC, the level is miniscule compared to what a standard switch box would be designed for, eg CD.
I'm sure these things are not insurmountable but would need taking into account.

 

[GT]

Another reason for getting the PU7 running again was your regular reminders how good it is!
Does @Rockhopper (whose Dais I now have) have the same EAR pre? I know he talked about multiple inputs.
System is all Tron: Seven line, Convergence phono, Atlantic power. There is a Seven pre with internal phono, but not a matching Atlantic pre with phono.

I can build you a Tron Seven with dual inputs, either MM and MC or 2 x MC inputs as I have a few chassis's left. Obviously this is a larger solution than the Convergence.

 

[Coda II]

I can build you a Tron seven with dual inputs, either MM and MC or 2 x MC inputs as I have a few chassis's left. Obviously this is a larger solution than the Convergence.

Was the phono stage in the original Sevens a 'full' SUT & valves stage when they (the Seven) were current?

 

[Chops54]

I tried the two arm thing and it didn’t work for me so I have two turntables in my main system instead. One turntable sports a mc cartridge, the other is mm and each has its own phono stage which just makes things so much easier.

 

[GT]

Was the phono stage in the original Sevens a 'full' SUT & valves stage when they (the Seven) were current?

Yes, a valve phono stage with an SUT for the MC stage. The higher spec'ed model had selectable gain on both inputs which makes it very flexible. Give me a call sometime and I can go over the different options.

 

[Mike Reed]

The two awkward things are: getting a brush to the stylus to clean it (yes, dust, even with wet clean records) and the fact that the acrylic box cover I have now only *just* fits!

Dusty records with an RCM cleaned record? Not sth I come across often. I had a 5mm thick acrylic cover made locally to my spec's a few years ago (cost me about £70 I think). It's pretty big and sits on the Target table with inches to spare; heavy though.