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Most impactful LP12 related upgrades

Nic Robinson said:
I think what you're describing is the quality of reproduction, not tunefulness. Unless tuneful merely means better reproduced?
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If a piece of kit enables me to hear the tunes and harmonies better or more easily, I'll call it more tuneful. The tunes are a big part of what I want reproduced. I'm not a musician, so I probably find it harder to fill in the blanks than you. If a piece of kit messes with the pitch of notes, albeit it in a subtle way, and turntables can certainly do that, it is reproducing the tunes less accurately - it's less tuneful IMO.
 
Nic Robinson said:
I have always found difficult music becomes more coherent on repeated listening but this has nothing to do with the reproducing equipment in my own experience (although I do prefer to listen on good kit than bad, as would anyone). The problem is (speaking as a musician) you will always start to notice new patterns the more you listen. The brain makes connections and recalls passages which become familiar and enjoyed by the listener. This is how great classical music often works: a bit meaningless on first hearing but rewarded by familiarity. In short: the kit you hear second will by definition give a more coherent performance in the context we are discussing. Obviously if the equipment is bad, it will be difficult to discern musical lines. But it would have to be Edison phonograph bad for that to be the norm.
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Lol, I thought you could write it down on first hearing.
 
Are there any alternatives to In-Soles or Mushrooms?
They just look like rubber bungs but presumably the characteristics of the rubber is key.
Just want to experiment on my LP12 without diving too deeply cost wise, as I don't listen to vinyl that much nowadays.
 
Howdy said:
Lol, I thought you could write it down on first hearing.
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Or I could write it down; at a single hearing if it's not too long.
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is what I said. In my later post I was referring to a piece which might last an hour, be atonal and highly contrapuntal.

Lol indeed. But I really can write down a short melody, in the correct key, on one hearing.*

*Not an especially amazing skill to be honest.
 
sonddek said:
If a piece of kit enables me to hear the tunes and harmonies better or more easily, I'll call it more tuneful. The tunes are a big part of what I want reproduced. I'm not a musician, so I probably find it harder to fill in the blanks than you. If a piece of kit messes with the pitch of notes, albeit it in a subtle way, and turntables can certainly do that, it is reproducing the tunes less accurately - it's less tuneful IMO.
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I think it's better to say it is reproducing the music more or less accurately. Tunes, aka melodies are an element of music and as has been stated, quite a lot of music doesn't contain them! But as you know, I'm as keen as you are on pitch stability.
 
Nic Robinson said:
Your opinions are noted. You are at liberty to report my post.
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Lol, I'm not reporting anyone - that would be even more infantile than your posts in LP12 threads. Apparently can't report moderators anyway...
more significantly can't ignore moderators either! Which is a real shame in your case.
 
GordonM said:
Are there any alternatives to In-Soles or Mushrooms?
They just look like rubber bungs but presumably the characteristics of the rubber is key.
Just want to experiment on my LP12 without diving too deeply cost wise, as I don't listen to vinyl that much nowadays.
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Hi,
Basically the Insoles were made for use with the Sole sub chassis by the same man (JohnR - In Soles - Geddit ?) but because the Sole in its earliest versions was designed to work with Linn springs,long before the Insoles had been launched, any Linn with Linn subchasses can use the Insoles . The Mushrooms are aimed at certain Thorens turntables which presumably have the same spring dimensions and placement so therefore work too - no idea which is the better or indeed if there is any difference - but I think, direct from JohnR, my Insoles cost me 30 quid delivered to a UK address in the summer of 2022. Audio Silente Mushrooms are more expensive. Since then JohnR has passed away and I have read no news regarding his firm nor products . I know JohnR had a lot of prototypes made before deciding the final formula of polymer (NOT rubber) that he finally opted for.
 
Chris said:
The Mushrooms are aimed at certain Thorens turntables which presumably have the same spring dimensions and placement so therefore work too
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I’ve been looking into the silicone mushrooms with a view to trying them out, I think rather than being a specific part ‘made in Japan’ for the Thorens 124, they are a generic isolation product for PCBs with the brass collar removed:
B1.jpg

These can be purchased for £10.72 from RS components, the manufacturer is Taica corporation of Japan

https://taica.co.jp/gel/en/product/vibration_damping/gelbush.html

The 14mm size is more suited to the LP12 sub-chassis, the Thorens are normally 16mm and a different shape.
 
seyles said:
I’ve been looking into the silicone mushrooms with a view to trying them out, I think rather than being a specific part ‘made in Japan’ for the Thorens 124, they are a generic isolation product for PCBs with the brass collar removed:
B1.jpg

These can be purchased for £10.72 from RS components, the manufacturer is Taica corporation of Japan

https://taica.co.jp/gel/en/product/vibration_damping/gelbush.html

The 14mm size is more suited to the LP12 sub-chassis, the Thorens are normally 16mm and a different shape.
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Great research - thanks for this. It would be mad to have such things made as a million varieties exist to suit every application for manufacturers.
 
GordonM said:
Are there any alternatives to In-Soles or Mushrooms?
They just look like rubber bungs but presumably the characteristics of the rubber is key.
Just want to experiment on my LP12 without diving too deeply cost wise, as I don't listen to vinyl that much nowadays.
Click to expand...

The In-Soles are not a lot softer than the grommits on top of the springs. If you want to experiment you could just try taking the springs out. I wonder if silicone will be too soft?
 
Mr Pig said:
At the moment, I don't think any of them do. Stack Audio used to do one but they've dropped it. To be honest, I think it trod on the toes of their more expensive ones but it's a shame they don't make it anymore as it was great value. It was called the Tennor. Might be worth asking Theo Stack is he has one kicking around, you never know.
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The StackAudio Tenor sub-chassis thickness is made for pre-Cirkus bearings, but used to come with a shim adapter for Cirkus/Karousel. StackAudio doesn't have them anymore but I just saw one on eBay, worth checking out @guydarryl.
 
13th Duke of Wymbourne said:
The In-Soles are not a lot softer than the grommits on top of the springs. If you want to experiment you could just try taking the springs out. I wonder if silicone will be too soft?
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This is exactly what I did, when I was experimenting with Thorens TD160s and '150s back in the 80s, using both the upper and lower rubber spring seats. It worked fine.

Interesting to see that the Audio Silente mushrooms are probably a generic part, but not surprising. Although I've yet to finish the rebuild, a bit of research turned up that the rubber parts used in the Roksan Xerxes X as isolators were also available from RS.
 
Nic Robinson said:
Mind you, given one person thinks mushrooms are more tuneful than springs, and another, vice versa, maybe it's a fluid definition...
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It's my experience that more often than not, the LP12 owners who prefer listening to the sound of their LINN springs to the mushrooms, have never heard the latter... never want to either - as is their right.

As an early promoter of the AUDIO SILENTE SILICONE MUSHROOMs on this and other forums, I have had many (private) conversations with new mushroom converts.

None of them have reverted.

Food for thought - especially for the bouncy devotees. :D
 
seyles said:
I’ve been looking into the silicone mushrooms with a view to trying them out, I think rather than being a specific part ‘made in Japan’ for the Thorens 124, they are a generic isolation product for PCBs with the brass collar removed:
B1.jpg

These can be purchased for £10.72 from RS components, the manufacturer is Taica corporation of Japan

https://taica.co.jp/gel/en/product/vibration_damping/gelbush.html

The 14mm size is more suited to the LP12 sub-chassis, the Thorens are normally 16mm and a different shape.
Click to expand...

You may well be right about this.

The three pairs of AUDIO SILENTE SILICONE MUSHROOMs - yes, they come as a (male and female) interlocking pair, to replace each spring - that I purchased from Lennart at LinnArts, were exactly the right fit for our STACK AUDIO ALTO sub-chassis. Frankly, they looked like they had been made for each other.

Lennart had also included new washers and other bits to make the whole process pretty foolproof.

For me, it was worth paying a small premium for knowing I was buying exactly the right part, right size, etc. I accept others might be willing to take their chances and save a few $$$.

This is the great thing about third-party LP12 upgrades... There's something for everyone! :D

I confess that I was never able to sample the IN SOLES installed in an LP12.

Based upon the many experiments that I have done on my LP12 bearing using various SILICONE OILS - to be avoided!!! - I believe that the silicone in the AUDIO SILENTE mushrooms provides important sub-chassis dampening. This helps prevent motor and bearing noise from reaching the stylus.

The same might be said of the JOINTLESS SILICONE BLUE BELT for LP12... another absolute winner!!!
 
ex brickie said:
No instructions with the bits? Clearly aimed at those who are very familiar with the undersides of an LP12 - probably sensible!
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The only tricky part of installing the AUDIO SILENTE SILICONE MUSHROOMs is determining which mushroom goes on top... male or female.
(This should flush-out a few good jokes... :D)

Frankly, it's been so long since I fitted them, I can't actually recall... :oops:

But I do recall that it was pretty obvious, once I butted each mushroom up against the sub-chassis, to determine which offered the better fit.

It is hard to get wrong... In any event, Lennart at LinnArts will tell you.
 
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