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Labour Leader: Keir Starmer VII

Mullardman said:
Err.. 115 years I think.
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Err..15 years but why are you bothered?

Seanm said:
Means-testing all the way down. They’re fanatics.
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LMAAO at that one.

droodzilla said:
Thanks, saved me the effort.

Looks like a balls-up on the comms front as this policy didn't even last for 24 hours.
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Idealists. It could be amusing but the fanaticism is quite dangerous.

So predictable from the far left, spinning like a top, striving for that tory win in '24 because we can't have a centre right Labour running the show and improving the lives of millions.

You must be desperately worried about the tories being ousted by Labour at the next GE. Can't have that.
 
Brian said:
So predictable from the far left, spinning like a top, striving for that tory win in '24 because we can't have a centre right Labour running the show and improving the lives of millions.

You must be desperately worried about the tories being ousted by Labour at the next GE. Can't have that.
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Is that what you honestly think? I just comes across as thread crapping, trolling.
 
Interesting that a desire for democratic representation, human rights, civil liberties, progressive economics, fair taxation, accountability, transparency and standing firmly and unambiguously against fascism and far-right ideology, rhetoric and bigotry is now considered “far-left” by some posters. Posters who it would appear will sell-out everything for a rosette colour.
 
It’s quite obvious the type of voters he’s after at the GE,
“I don’t care if people think I’m a conservative, says Starmer as he vows New Labour ‘on steroids’.”

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Tony L said:
Not true. Any non-Tory marginal seat has the potential to return a non-Labour MP and would result in a more democratic and progressive hung parliament. The only place I’d ever vote Labour was in a Lab/Tory marginal. Every other scenario I’d vote tactically for the other progressive, or in a un-winnable safe seat just vote on conscience as that vote is irrelevant. Most seats are actually in the latter category (around 59% according to Wikipedia).
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Seems a bit fantastical. We're stuck with the two main parties for the foreseeable future.
 
Kirk said:
Seems a bit fantastical. We're stuck with the two main parties for the foreseeable future.
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Why? My voting strategy is just basic boolean logic. Nothing fantastical at all. I am firmly opposed to elite Tory minority rule, but I believe in democratic reform, transparency, accountability, human rights/civil liberties, a fair tax progressive economy etc (none of which being Labour priorities). I can best achieve this change under the existing system by voting for more progressive and democratic alternatives to Labour anywhere aside from a Lab/Tory marginal.
 
The Tory establishment’s substitute leader Keir Starmer stating on the record he will keep the authoritarian human rights-defying protest act in place (LBC via Twitter).

Message to the monarchy, the offshore tax-exile elites, oligarchs, money-launderers, dark-money think-tanks, environment destroyers etc; don’t worry, Labour will protect you from scrutiny or criticism.
 
gavreid said:
Is that what you honestly think? I just comes across as thread crapping, trolling.
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Yes, Gav, it’s what I really think.

There are far left folk here, just like those who were happy to help a hard brexit become reality because they couldn’t cancel the referendum, who are comfortable helping a tory GE win in 2024 simply because Starmer is not from the far left. They are no different to the Labour right who were unable to support Labour when Corbyn was party leader. No difference at all.

I’m happy for you to disagree and I won’t call you a troll or accuse you of thread crapping for doing so.
 
My position is simple.

Voting for "the lesser of two evils" for decades has led ut to where we are now.

I'm not prepared to do it anymore.

I accept any consequences that might flow from this infinitesimal act of rebellion.
 
Brian said:
Yes, Gav, it’s what I really think.

There are far left folk here, just like those who were happy to help a hard brexit become reality because they couldn’t cancel the referendum, who are comfortable helping a tory GE win in 2024 simply because Starmer is not from the far left. They are no different to the Labour right who were unable to support Labour when Corbyn was party leader. No difference at all.
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To my mind, the bit that looked a bit like trolling was your line:
You must be desperately worried about the tories being ousted by Labour at the next GE. Can't have that.
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On many readings, this comes across as suggesting that the person is worried about the Tories being ousted, ie suggesting the person is a Tory.

Also, I don't think there's anybody arguing on this, or other threads, whom I would categorise as 'far left'. So that's a teeny bit troll-y, too.

Your point, as I understand it, is that some people, in continuing to oppose Brexit once the die was cast, enabled the hard Brexit we now have. I'd say it's quite a leap from arguing that opposing Brexit brought about a hard Brexit, and arguing that these people were happy to bring about a hard Brexit. I think the political reality is more that many people continued to voice their opposition to something, and that was weaponised by their opponents. You may argue it was naive to think this wouldn't happen; I'd disagree, because I think this requires hindsight.
 
Tony L said:
Interesting that a desire for democratic representation, human rights, civil liberties, progressive economics, fair taxation, accountability, transparency and standing firmly and unambiguously against fascism and far-right ideology, rhetoric and bigotry is now considered “far-left” by some posters. Posters who it would appear will sell-out everything for a rosette colour.
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I want all of those things yet I want a centre left govt, a desire for those things is nothing to do with the far left, your post is just another snipe, an invention of a position I don’t hold and to start of another little bandwagon.

You say you want those things but you have no understanding of how to get there. Realistically, there is a pathway to get there, and there is a good possibility they won’t all be achieved but that’s beyond your comprehension and as an idealist you will accept nothing less.

I’m not the ‘sell-out’ here, let alone for a rosette colour. I’ve told you many times before, step 1 is to remove the tories and start a move to the left. If that was possible by voting for the Greens I would be going down that route. It isn’t. Don’t mention the LibDems, they are tories. Accepting more of the tories because you can’t get everything you want is selling out.
 
Tony L said:
The Tory establishment’s substitute leader Keir Starmer stating on the record he will keep the authoritarian human rights-defying protest act in place (LBC via Twitter).

.
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Be fair. Starmer is not a Tory substitute leader.

He’s more supply teacher, bought in to maintain a minimum level of order rather than achieve any progress. A stand-in with lesson plans but no real expectation that they will be carried out until the real teacher gets back
 
gavreid said:
@Brian . Drood does not want/support a Tory Government in anyway - and you owe him an apology in my opinion.
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No, I don’t. I think it’s obvious I don’t believe he actually votes tory, my position is voting against Labour where they could win a seat is helping enable a tory majority over Labour at the GE. Doing so and accepting this must mean the person is happy with that potential outcome, but perhaps you disagree.

Any reason why you don’t callout members and demand an apology be issued for attributing a position to me I don’t hold?
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
To my mind, the bit that looked a bit like trolling was your line:

On many readings, this comes across as suggesting that the person is worried about the Tories being ousted, ie suggesting the person is a Tory.

Also, I don't think there's anybody arguing on this, or other threads, whom I would categorise as 'far left'. So that's a teeny bit troll-y, too.

Your point, as I understand it, is that some people, in continuing to oppose Brexit once the die was cast, enabled the hard Brexit we now have. I'd say it's quite a leap from arguing that opposing Brexit brought about a hard Brexit, and arguing that these people were happy to bring about a hard Brexit. I think the political reality is more that many people continued to voice their opposition to something, and that was weaponised by their opponents. You may argue it was naive to think this wouldn't happen; I'd disagree, because I think this requires hindsight.
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Try reading it again, then. What it means in the context of that post and others is the person is unable to countenance a Labour GE win with a party leader from the Labour right. That is what the discussion has been about...you know, Starmer actually being a right wing tory and Labour really being tories, so some can’t support the party anymore.

You may not consider anyone far-left and that’s your choice. I beg to differ.
 
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