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Vibration Isolation Experiments

IanW

pfm Member
Vibration Isolation (in room distortion reduction)

My main HiFi is in our lounge (11ft by 18 ft) which has a suspended floor with a significant air volume beneath. The laminate floor and the air volume beneath vibrates and has added noise / distortion to the music being played to a greater or lesser extent over the past 25 years. During this timeframe I have tried various things to reduce the 60-70 Hz resonance in the room (main room mode):

1. Increased mass of speakers and Mana sound stages resulted in a tighter bass, but it did not change the main resonant modes that still left records like the Prodigy being played with excessive bass.

2. Increased the height of the Mana stack under the speakers. This reduced the energy getting into the suspended floor. I could feel the vibration reducing down the Mana stack (7 soundstages), level by level, but the sound still had too much bass distortion.

3. Introduced tuned Helmholtz resonators to take out the main room modes. This was done 20 years ago and made all tracks playable with reduced bass distortion. The measured graphs showed a very messy RT60 beforehand (multiple spikes at up to 4 seconds in the main modes) and a very smooth 1 (correction from 2 sec (thanks ToToMan) but will measure to confirm) sec RT60 after the Helmholtz resonators were installed.

4. Changed loudspeakers to Wilson Sophias and removed the Mana speaker stacks under the speakers. This tightened up the bass and reduced the energy input into the floor further, but I could still feel it anywhere in the room by putting my hand on the floor.

I then started to experiment with vibration isolation again.

Having used Mana for a long time I was aware that it added its own distortion (the Mana effect), which I like, as well as providing some isolation (but it is not its focus).

So I did a lot of research and came across Barry Diament’s roller bearing approach, Stacore (heavily developed bearing plus air bladder plus constrained layer damping, plus heavy mass), Symposium USA (bearings plus other solutions, Townshend Audio (tuned vertical springs and constrained layer damping metal sheets), Running Silent Audio (very expensive military tech) and Sonority (roller bearings, laminate boards and cone+bearing equipment interfaces). From a physics perspective the bearing and cups approach is the equivalent of a horizontal spring and hence provide a measure of horizontal isolation. The air bladder or vertical springs provide vertical isolation. The constrained layer damping generally provides higher frequency isolation through conversion of vibration energy to heat.

Sonority and I had discussed F1 a few times and then the conversation then moved onto HiFi isolation as Sonority makes some isolation shelves and I was looking to experiment in that area. Steve then very kindly gave me some boards to experiment with the bearing cups that I had had machined (+ a range of bearings purchased for experimentation). He also gave me a complete Sonority board and bearing system to use as a reference. In parallel we discussed noise reduction in HiFi systems and adding tuned vertical springs to his speaker stands. Results of my experiments with roller bearings and Sonority boards:

1. Just putting the bearing and bearing cups under my Audio Synthesis DAX Decade (second system) or my nCore nc400 power amps (main system) showed a reduction in noise (cleaner notes, easier to hear bass lines) but with the bigger effect occurring with the Audio Synthesis.

2. I then added one Sonority roller shelf under the Auralic Altair G1 (HDD player, steamer, digital preamp) in the main system. This further reduced the noise and was a bigger step than all others made so far.

3. I then added Sonority boards (with aluminium sheet for bearing runners on the top boards) and more machined aluminium roller cups and bearings under the nc400 power amps and the Dynavector phono stage and Norton Air power supply for the LP12. This resulted in a similar effect for the analogue chain (LP12 still in a Mana Soundclamp, Mana Soundframes and on a Mana Wall Shelf) with noise much reduced and all instruments and voices much clearer and a clearer soundstage.

4. Steve then visited my house and we (+occasional PFM poster, Paul Ogle) installed the Sonority speaker roller shelves with springs under the Wilson’s. It was immediately obvious to all 3 of us that it was a much cleaner sound, with very clear bass lines and a much clearer stereo image. With no observable vibrational energy getting from the loudspeaker into the suspended floor.

All vibration isolation experiments measured with my hand on equipment and with the iPad accelerometer and Seismograph software. Both with tapping the equipment or the floor and observing the reaction or with music playing.

In summary installing the Sonority noise reduction system has been the biggest improvement to my HiFi since installing the Wilson Sophias. My experiments were successful in that I got rid of the floor resonance and in parallel got a large reduction in noise / distortion and a large improvement in sound quality and enjoyment.
 
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My suspended floor bounced like heck. House is very old. It's still not great but I tacked the issue head on by going under floor and stiffening it. The joists are reinforced underneath where the speaker are and I've put loads of 'soldiers' in which brace the joists against the ground/solum. Helps a bit.
 
Vibration Isolation (in room distortion reduction)

My main HiFi is in our lounge (11ft by 18 ft) which has a suspended floor with a significant air volume beneath. The laminate floor and the air volume beneath vibrates and has added noise / distortion to the music being played to a greater or lesser extent over the past 25 years. During this timeframe I have tried various things to reduce the 60-70 Hz resonance in the room (main room mode):

1. Increased mass of speakers and Mana sound stages resulted in a tighter bass, but it did not change the main resonant modes that still left records like the Prodigy being played with excessive bass.

2. Increased the height of the Mana stack under the speakers. This reduced the energy getting into the suspended floor. I could feel the vibration reducing down the Mana stack (7 soundstages), level by level, but the sound still had too much bass distortion.

3. Introduced tuned Helmholtz resonators to take out the main room modes. This was done 20 years ago and made all tracks playable with reduced bass distortion. The measured graphs showed a very messy RT60 beforehand (multiple spikes at up to 4 seconds in the main modes) and a very smooth 2 sec RT60 after the Helmholtz resonators were installed.

4. Changed loudspeakers to Wilson Sophias and removed the Mana speaker stacks under the speakers. This tightened up the bass and reduced the energy input into the floor further, but I could still feel it anywhere in the room by putting my hand on the floor.

I then started to experiment with vibration isolation again.

Having used Mana for a long time I was aware that it added its own distortion (the Mana effect), which I like, as well as providing some isolation (but it is not its focus).

So I did a lot of research and came across Barry Diament’s roller bearing approach, Stacore (heavily developed bearing plus air bladder plus constrained layer damping, plus heavy mass), Symposium USA (bearings plus other solutions, Townshend Audio (tuned vertical springs and constrained layer damping metal sheets), Running Silent Audio (very expensive military tech) and Sonority (roller bearings, laminate boards and cone+bearing equipment interfaces). From a physics perspective the bearing and cups approach is the equivalent of a horizontal spring and hence provide a measure of horizontal isolation. The air bladder or vertical springs provide vertical isolation. The constrained layer damping generally provides higher frequency isolation through conversion of vibration energy to heat.

Sonority and I had discussed F1 a few times and then the conversation then moved onto HiFi isolation as Sonority makes some isolation shelves and I was looking to experiment in that area. Steve then very kindly gave me some boards to experiment with the bearing cups that I had had machined (+ a range of bearings purchased for experimentation). He also gave me a complete Sonority board and bearing system to use as a reference. In parallel we discussed noise reduction in HiFi systems and adding tuned vertical springs to his speaker stands. Results of my experiments with roller bearings and Sonority boards:

1. Just putting the bearing and bearing cups under my Audio Synthesis DAX Decade (second system) or my nCore nc400 power amps (main system) showed a reduction in noise (cleaner notes, easier to hear bass lines) but with the bigger effect occurring with the Audio Synthesis.

2. I then added one Sonority roller shelf under the Auralic Altair G1 (HDD player, steamer, digital preamp) in the main system. This further reduced the noise and was a bigger step than all others made so far.

3. I then added Sonority boards (with aluminium sheet for bearing runners on the top boards) and more machined aluminium roller cups and bearings under the nc400 power amps and the Dynavector phono stage and Norton Air power supply for the LP12. This resulted in a similar effect for the analogue chain (LP12 still in a Mana Soundclamp, Mana Soundframes and on a Mana Wall Shelf) with noise much reduced and all instruments and voices much clearer and a clearer soundstage.

4. Steve then visited my house and we (+occasional PFM poster, Paul Ogle) installed the Sonority speaker roller shelves with springs under the Wilson’s. It was immediately obvious to all 3 of us that it was a much cleaner sound, with very clear bass lines and a much clearer stereo image. With no observable vibrational energy getting from the loudspeaker into the suspended floor.

All vibration isolation experiments measured with my hand on equipment and with the iPad accelerometer and Seismograph software. Both with tapping the equipment or the floor and observing the reaction or with music playing.

In summary installing the Sonority noise reduction system has been the biggest improvement to my HiFi since installing the Wilson Sophias. My experiments were successful in that I got rid of the floor resonance and in parallel got a large reduction in noise / distortion and a large improvement in sound quality and enjoyment.
Are you sure your decay time is 2 seconds after treatment? At what frequencies is it 2 seconds? I find measuring RT60 to be very inconsistent at frequencies below 80Hz, but 2 seconds in an 18ft x 11ft room sounds abnormally high to me. The RT60 in my untreated 13.5ft x 12.5ft x 10.5ft room ranged from 0.6 to 1.1 seconds depending on frequency pre-treatment and it is now 0.25 to 0.45 seconds post-treatment.
 
While I've had seismic results with the Addis pad+Diall bumper combo myself (with my equipment and speakers still on mana), the one thing the combo hasn't done is eliminate floor vibration completely to/from the speakers; in fairness, I'm not sure that's what I want, even if it's what my neighbours want, if not need. It's considerably reduced to how it was before but it's not gone altogether. This may well be an improvement in that regard so I'll be following this thread with interest. Indeed, when I read Barry Diament's article (link) it really was fascinating!
 
Are you sure your decay time is 2 seconds after treatment? At what frequencies is it 2 seconds? I find measuring RT60 to be very inconsistent at frequencies below 80Hz, but 2 seconds in an 18ft x 11ft room sounds abnormally high to me. The RT60 in my untreated 13.5ft x 12.5ft x 10.5ft room ranged from 0.6 to 1.1 seconds depending on frequency pre-treatment and it is now 0.25 to-0.45 seconds post-treatment.
Thanks, you are correct, thinking back I think that it was close to 1 second, but far better to have a go at measuring it, which is what I plan to do. The acoustician did it with the aim of stopping the main room modes resonating. It was 20 years ago and so I had got that part confused. And yes, having just looked into it, measuring it is not easy.
 
My suspended floor is over a very rough concrete base.

I cut lengths of steel rod that rest on the concrete (dropped through holes in the floorboards) and the spikes of the supports sit in c/sinks in the top of the rods, which were cut more or less flush with floor level.

If the base was earth, I'd put a brick under each rod, on the earth.
 
A big thanks to Steve @Sonority who helped me out a massive amount with my search for a means to achieve this.

He has listened to so many variations that he has been able to develop a quite amazing solution that worked far better than I expected.

I approached what I wanted from the physics of the situation and ended up in a very similar place as Steve had. Of course I only really came up with a concept for isolation based on research out there (heat shrunk springs for vertical, roller cups and bearings for horizontal, constrained layer damping for boards to dissipate energy and getting the equipment in better contact with the stand), whereas Steve has done all the listening and testing to get to a real workable solution.

I will sort out hosting some pictures and get them posted here.
 
It all sounds like a lot of effort, mixed with good sense, thankfully well rewarded by demonstrably excellent results. Congratulations!
 
I've had similar experiences to the OP. Though my room doesn't have the same sort of issues the OP's has and is fairly benign, I've found that isolation under equipment, speakers, and mains block has all contributed to a tightening up of the sound, less 'hash', less of that fuzz of reverberation around the notes, better timing and more natural timbres. All good stuff. I'm currently a big fan of AcouPlex, made by MusicWorks.
 
I looked at them as part of my research, along with Stacore, Mesanovic, Sonority Design, Symposium USA as commercial solutions. I was more interested in learning and testing out the physics of designs. So when Steve from Sonority Design contacted me with some help, that made for a very interesting learning experience.

There are of course conceptual similarities between the designs, with Townshend using springs to isolate in the vertical direction with springs selected based on the load to be isolated. Townshend and Mesanovic (spring rate not optimized) use shorter springs which will result in a higher resonant frequency and hence less isolation (the Sonority stand was designed to have a lower resonant frequency and hence greater isolation). All 3 use some form of visco elastic material to provide some damping for higher frequencies that would otherwise be transmitted through or on the surface of the metal of the spring. The Sonority prototype also isolates very effectively in the horizontal degree of freedom with the roller bearings which the other 2 do not have (whereas something like the Stacore solution also does 6 degrees of freedom but uses an air spring to provide isolation in the vertical degree of freedom).
 
Have you looked at Stack Audio's new isolation feet? They're not cheap but the few reviews they've had are outstanding. They use a novel method of dissipating energy and apparently they're quite hard to make.
 


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