Is this the best tonearm in the world?

[Joe]

Even if you’re close, it’s a lot of money. I can’t help feeling that the money would be better spent in developing a parallel tracker, .

I can't help felling that it would be better spent curing third world debt at that price.

 

[GT]

Even if you’re close, it’s a lot of money. I can’t help feeling that the money would be better spent in developing a parallel tracker, where the arm is about 10mm long. At least you’d get rid of the tracking error, which remains non-insignificant with any other arm type, no matter how expensive.

It is true about getting rid of the tracking error by using parallel tracking. However, the pivoted tonearm whether 9", 10", 10.5" and 12", are only tracking perfectly with zero tracking distortion at two null points on the record. I defy anyone to be able to tell exactly when they hear these two null points when listening to the record, like, there it is just there! The reality is that you can't tell by listening where these points are exactly, so I wouldn't get too hung up on parallel tracking vs pivoted tonearms. Parallel tracking arms certainly do have a characteristic sound, but there are so many other factors at work with tonearms, like design, length, materials used, mass etc. Thats why they call them "Tonearms"...

 

[GT]

I can't help felling that it would be better spent curing third world debt at that price.

Not relevant to the subject of this thread, but what about the enormous amounts of money being used to go to the Moon, Mars and other farcical ventures when we are not only destroying our own planet but also a significant number of people living on it. I will say that Bill Gates is an example of what someone with wealth can do to help.

 

[sonddek]

Goodness, there is so much lack of understand of basic structures being guffed here. The usual confusion between strength and stiffness, suggesting a tube is good wrt to stiffness to weight in a bending case compared to other shapes, etc. Some basic reading would help some - this is particularly good example of the genre :-



I don't know whether to get angry or just laugh; best do the latter.

Please laugh - I like to make people happy!

PS Oh, and if something 'doesn't flex' you have infinite stress when you apply load. Q: is that a good thing ?

Are you sure "infinite stress" is correct? Seems like a lot!

 

[Nero]

It is true about getting rid of the tracking error by using parallel tracking. However, the pivoted tonearm whether 9", 10", 10.5" and 12", are only tracking perfectly with zero tracking distortion at two null points on the record. I defy anyone to be able to tell exactly when they hear these two null points when listening to the record, like, there it is just there! The reality is that you can't tell by listening where these points are exactly, so I wouldn't get too hung up on parallel tracking vs pivoted tonearms. Parallel tracking arms certainly do have a characteristic sound, but there are so many other factors at work with tonearms, like design, length, materials used, mass etc. Thats why they call them "Tonearms"...

Just out of interest, are you of the opinion that tonearm length per se doesn’t matter? Shirley the reason people ‘prefer’ 12” arms is the (reduced) tracking error. Or is that completely buried in the other factors?

I would posit that we can’t hear tracking distortion because most records cleverly locate the intertrack silences at those points, specifically so we can’t hear the lack of distortion. Obvs this doesn’t apply to Tales from Topographic Oceans.

 

[Joe]

Not relevant to the subject of this thread, but what about the enormous amounts of money being used to go to the Moon, Mars and other farcical ventures when we are not only destroying our own planet but also a significant number of people living on it. I will say that Bill Gates is an example of what someone with wealth can do to help.

So much that I could unpick in that statement but suffice to say...I was not seriously suggesting that it would in any way have any effect on world debt.

As for your thoughts on Bill Gates................................................

 

[Tony L]

Not relevant to the subject of this thread, but what about the enormous amounts of money being used to go to the Moon, Mars and other farcical ventures when we are not only destroying our own planet but also a significant number of people living on it.

The amount of scientific knowledge arising from NASA and other space/astronomy projects is incalculable. Much of the technology we rely on today in multiple fields spanning everything from computer technology right through to medicine along with a better understanding of our own planet’s ecosystem, environment and climate was born from this research. Rather different in scope than selling grotesquely overpriced steampunk bling-fi to a tiny handful of oligarchs!

NASA is mankind’s greatest achievement IMO. It’s between that and Bach/Miles Davis.

 

[Beobloke]

Just out of interest, are you of the opinion that tonearm length per se doesn’t matter? Shirley the reason people ‘prefer’ 12” arms is the (reduced) tracking error. Or is that completely buried in the other factors?

Sadly, the superb performance of this deck kind of tramples on that theory.

And, no, I don't claim to understand how or why it works so well!

 

[GT]

Just out of interest, are you of the opinion that tonearm length per se doesn’t matter? Shirley the reason people ‘prefer’ 12” arms is the (reduced) tracking error. Or is that completely buried in the other factors?

Let's just say there are many other factors. For heavy cartridges like the Ortofon SPUs I prefer to use 12" tonearms, but for the more conventional cartridges I prefer the 10.5" length as that is a good all round compromise and some 10.5" tonearms have been some of the best pivoted tonearms I have heard. I also enjoy listening to some parallel tracking tonearms too.

 

[Tony L]

Sadly, the superb performance of this deck kind of tramples on that theory.

Have you properly assessed one? I find the logic baffling and the first thing I’d do if confronted with one is to dig out a 28 minute side of an opera (or similar) with a loud closing stage as I don’t see how it could get through that cleanly just from an alignment/tracing perspective. I guess the logic is to lose the need for anti-skate, which is a destructive force, but I’d have thought the tracking error would be terrible! Any idea where on the record the null-point lies (I assume there can only be one)? I guess if it is right at the end of side it might not be too horrific.

 

[ex brickie]

What is it then @Beobloke

 

[ex brickie]

The reviewer of the arm said it was better than his Tiger Paw Javelin - but best guesses on here imply that the Supatrac would be at least 3 x the price.

More specifically though, I'd be interested in what exactly had improved vs the Javelin......

 

[nmtjb]

Sadly, the superb performance of this deck kind of tramples on that theory.

And, no, I don't claim to understand how or why it works so well!

Thats a TT I'd like to hear one day. Using the same design concept, the Viv Labs arm sounds pretty good IMO, and as you note, flies in the face of the usual thinking, with the added benefit of not having any bearing to worry about.

 

[ex brickie]

What is that TT???

 

[gingermrkettle]

the first thing I’d do if confronted with one is to dig out a 28 minute side of an opera (or similar) with a loud closing stage

The Karajan record of Shostakovich 10 has the scherzo (loud, fast with woodwind very high in the register and enthusiastic use of percussion including cymbals) at the end of the first side. It makes it very clear why I have a Terminator arm, you really can tell when the alignment is not spot on.

 

[Darren]

I love the OMA aesthetic and appreciate how clearly Jonathon is prepared to explain his references (all very old, classic kit) and his objectives. I admire him for making the best kit that he can conceive of.
I'm certain that he and @Tony L share a lot of common ground regarding classic kit worth having.

OMA kit is made in very small numbers and is essentially hand made so its really expensive .

I cant afford any of it but wish I could. The reason I'm currently struggling to restore/ modernise an old Lenco 75 is that its the only turntable I can afford that Jonathon rates....... But I'm not very mechanically minded so its frustrating!!

 

[nmtjb]

What is that TT???

Yamaha GT-5000

 

[Paul R]

I guess the logic is to lose the need for anti-skate, which is a destructive force,

It needs as much anti-skate as any other non-tangential tracking arm. Although it may need anti-anti-skate, it's hard to see what the relative lengths are.

but I’d have thought the tracking error would be terrible! Any idea where on the record the null-point lies (I assume there can only be one)? I guess if it is right at the end of side it might not be too horrific.

If it's 10" long and has an overhang of 1mm and an offset angle or 1degree then average tracking distortion is 5.4%. I guessed some numbers and abused an alignment calculator... The reality probably isn't better.

 

[Tony L]

It needs as much anti-skate as any other non-tangential tracking arm. Although it may need anti-anti-skate, it's hard to see what the relative lengths are.

The anti-skating thing confused me as I couldn’t see why it wasn’t needed, but this kind of arm doesn’t ever seem to have it.

As I understand it the zero offset approach started in the DJ world as apparently it’s harder to yeet the cartridge right out of the groove when aggressively back-cueing or scratching. I was surprised to see a highly credible, traditional and clearly engineering-led company such as Yamaha adopting it on high-end home audio kit. I don’t understand it. I know there has been another high-end audiophile arm from Japan built on similar principles/lack thereof. Can’t remember the name but it is obviously straight and may even be a unipivot.

If it's 10" long and has an overhang of 1mm and an offset angle or 1degree then average tracking distortion is 5.4%. I guessed some numbers and abused an alignment calculator... The reality probably isn't better.

Yikes. That’s crunchy.

 

[nmtjb]

The anti-skating thing confused me as I couldn’t see why it wasn’t needed, but this kind of arm doesn’t ever seem to have it.

As I understand it the zero offset approach started in the DJ world as apparently it’s harder to yeet the cartridge right out of the groove when aggressively back-cueing or scratching. I was surprised to see a highly credible, traditional and clearly engineering-led company such as Yamaha adopting it on high-end home audio kit. I don’t understand it. I know there has been another high-end audiophile arm from Japan built on similar principles/lack thereof. Can’t remember the name but it is obviously straight and may even be a unipivot.

Viv Labs, 7"-13", no bearing, armwand sits on a bubble of magnetic oil. Works well enough with an old SPU, probably with distortion but SPU's are pretty coloured in any case. I don't suppose Yamaha would have produced the GT-5000 knowing it would sound crap.