Ban on petrol and diesel cars from 2030

[cutting42]

Electric car VED was inevitable.

It is a myth that EVs are zero polluters. They let out no exhaust pipe pollution. The pollution comes from elsewhere, but it is still pollution.

I am highly enthusiastic for small EVs, but less so for large ones, which rightly should be taxed heavily via VED in my mule opinion.

Best wishes from George

It’s not a myth because nobody buying into the cars ever believed they were zero emissions. They are zero at the point of use and reflect the generation source ie as we improve the sustainability of generation the cars get cleaner. Hard to get rid of manufacturing costs but funny how no-one ever considered them until the anti EV crowd discovered battery chemical mining!

Don’t forget there is a huge business dedicated to casting FUD in the direction of EV’s and anything green tinged. People are being slowly educated. They are not a panacea of all ills but they are a step it the right direction.

A small car might suit you and your dog but it does not suit everyone so you will get big cars and small cars and medium sized cars along with SUV, Vans, Sports Cars and every other style that people want. Still better than fossil fuels IMO And they all use the roads so should be taxed.

 

[Seeker_UK]

And they all use the roads so should be taxed.

VED isn't hypothecated - it goes into general taxation. It's just another way to spread the tax burden so it doesn't look as much like we're being hammered for it.

 

[darrenyeats]

as we improve the sustainability of generation the cars get cleaner.

And as batteries get lighter (it seems silicon-based anodes are up next, then lithium sulfur chemistry 2024?) The key is compelling and affordable products, I agree this is a gradual process.

 

[Rockmeister]

I thought 'hypothecate' was a term for individual money transfer to bind it in law for a specific purpose, but regardless, it's a red herring.
VED tax = more money to be used somewhere.
All vehicles cause road wear and tear, congestion etc, so all should be taxed.
EV's for now should be affordable to buy or lease. If they are not then most will be unable buy them until forced to do so in 20 or so years by the overpricing of fossil fuels. And then?

The overriding point is to significantly reduce emissions and pollution. Al cities should be concentrating on improving this fast and soon.
I'd swap some VED for a road/motorway tax, allowing EV's free run and everything else a small usage charge based on miles on the road. Remove the vehicle license nonsense and add a buyers charge to license each vehicle for £50, covering DVLA paperwork costs.

VERY simple to instal a tracker in all vehicles at manufacture and link it to a payment scheme. 1p a mile for cars? Or make it 3p and remove all tax on fuel?

 

[darrenyeats]

"All vehicles cause road wear and tear, congestion etc, so all should be taxed."

This is not a binary property. As you rightly wrote later on in your post, reducing emissions is the key.

Big cars cause more pollution (at the factory, power station and tyre dust etc.) Unfortunately making the tax linear to pollution doesn't seem to motivate enough people, hence the tax curve.

 

[Tony Lockhart]

Unfortunately, many regard a large SUV as a valuable status symbol. It’ll be difficult to price them off the road, if that’s what you want to do, as they neeeeeeed the status.

 

[stevec67]

The overriding point is to significantly reduce emissions and pollution. Al cities should be concentrating on improving this fast and soon.
I'd swap some VED for a road/motorway tax, allowing EV's free run and everything else a small usage charge based on miles on the road. Remove the vehicle license nonsense and add a buyers charge to license each vehicle for £50, covering DVLA paperwork costs.

VERY simple to instal a tracker in all vehicles at manufacture and link it to a payment scheme. 1p a mile for cars? Or make it 3p and remove all tax on fuel?

The sensible route is to tax at different rates. London already has this. Other cities are coming soon. Bradford has a clean air zone, so far only for commercial vehicles and not private cars. However we all know it's coming. The criticism of purely mileage based tax is that rural areas miss out because they have no choice but to travel the 10 miles to the nearest town. I live in Leeds, I can choose to get the bus, walk or cycle to the supermarket. So you can charge 1p a mile for rural roads and higher rates for towns and cities. It's also easy to charge more at busy times. Travelling in a car in a city in the rush hour? Be my guest, 10p a mile. The same at night is a lot less. Again, this happens with congestion charge, Dartford Xing, etc.

Unfortunately, many regard a large SUV as a valuable status symbol. It’ll be difficult to price them off the road, if that’s what you want to do, as they neeeeeeed the status.

That's just fine. It means that if you really must drive a 2 tonne vehicle with a 5 litre engine so you can look smug at the traffic lights, you can. You just have to pay heavily for it. If you can't afford the big bills, buy a Fiesta.

 

[Rockmeister]

"All vehicles cause road wear and tear, congestion etc, so all should be taxed."

This is not a binary property. As you rightly wrote later on in your post, reducing emissions is the key.

Big cars cause more pollution (at the factory, power station and tyre dust etc.) Unfortunately making the tax linear to pollution doesn't seem to motivate enough people, hence the tax curve.

2 seperate issues I agree, but what is road tax for? The maintainance of and improvement to the public road transport system. It muyst be road users who pay for this, and we need roads for maybe 200 or 300 years until goods and services can arrive some other way so.

 

[Tony Lockhart]

The sensible route is to tax at different rates. London already has this. Other cities are coming soon. Bradford has a clean air zone, so far only for commercial vehicles and not private cars. However we all know it's coming. The criticism of purely mileage based tax is that rural areas miss out because they have no choice but to travel the 10 miles to the nearest town. I live in Leeds, I can choose to get the bus, walk or cycle to the supermarket. So you can charge 1p a mile for rural roads and higher rates for towns and cities. It's also easy to charge more at busy times. Travelling in a car in a city in the rush hour? Be my guest, 10p a mile. The same at night is a lot less. Again, this happens with congestion charge, Dartford Xing, etc.


That's just fine. It means that if you really must drive a 2 tonne vehicle with a 5 litre engine so you can look smug at the traffic lights, you can. You just have to pay heavily for it. If you can't afford the big bills, buy a Fiesta.

So the issue remains..?

 

[stevec67]

So the issue remains..?

Big cars will always be out there. There will however be fewer of them. Sure, the orange women going to the clothes shops in the Rangie and the drug dealers and pimps will still "need" them, but they will be so small in number as to be irrelevant. It's like IC engines. The late adopters will refuse EVs until hell freezes over (or realistically until the icebergs melt). That's fine. They can pay through the nose if they want to, the rest of us who like the convenience of a IC powered car but aren't prepared to pay £500 VED a year for the privilege will by then have shrugged and bought an EV. Not everybody has to change for the solution to be effective.

 

[Bob McC]

People still thinking that the electricity to run an EV will be cheap.

Fools.

And soon enough clean air zones will become traffic toll zones.

Govt has to make up lost revenue somewhere.

 

[Rockmeister]

But at least your grandchildren may have a clean world. ?

 

[Sonority]

The prospect of a 12p per litre rise in fuel duty next March is not really hitting the headlines - yet.

 

[George J]

SNIP ...

A small car might suit you and your dog but it does not suit everyone so you will get big cars and small cars and medium sized cars along with SUV, Vans, Sports Cars and every other style that people want. Still better than fossil fuels IMO And they all use the roads so should be taxed.

I am sure that not every one could cope with my rather small demands on a car. I agree with you entirely. Horses for courses.

When I [or if I'm ever able to] retire, I shall not run any motorised personal transport. Shanks's Pony is quite a good method. I gave up cycling in August, because the roads are so dangerous nowadays. Three cyclist hit by cars within a mile of me since the summer. The last one left with life changing injuries, and it was a hit and run. Older and wiser, I'll leave cycling to younger more confident people. Herefordshire is not Norfolk, and I hope to dust the Carlton off once a year to relive happy memories of greater efforts before!

Thank you for your post. Best wishes from George

PS: There is a new Citroen EV van based on the 2CV. I would fancy one of those. But my favourite is the Microlino!

 

[stevec67]

I am sure that not every one could cope with my rather small demands on a car. I agree with you entirely. Horses for courses.

I'm sure I couldn't, even if I were prepared to sacrifice a good deal in order to do so. I did 20k miles between MoTs last year, in a now 13 year old diesel car. It's mostly for work. Over the last year I've had work in rural Wales (can't easily get there by train), rural Norfolk / Suffolk (nearest train 40 minutes away) and now in S Yorkshire, 30 miles from home, daily commute, no easy train option. I try to do a bit. In Wales I walked to work when I wasn't driving across the country, and I took a bike to commute from hotel to factory in Suffolk. But tomorrow I'm driving 2 x 20 miles for social purposes, I'll do half that on Sunday in the car in order to then go cycling, and I live in and heat a bigger house than I strictly need.

 

[Cav]

2 seperate issues I agree, but what is road tax for? The maintainance of and improvement to the public road transport system. It muyst be road users who pay for this, and we need roads for maybe 200 or 300 years until goods and services can arrive some other way so.

There is no such thing as road tax. Most road maintenance is the responsibility of Local Authorities; upgrades and new roads are the responsibility of DfT. VED is just another tax which goes into the general tax pot.

 

[simon g]

VED is just another Excise duty. It isn't 'ring fenced' for expenditure on roads.

The OBR estimates that VED will raise £7.2Bn in 2022/2023

https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/tax-by-tax-spend-by-spend/vehicle-excise-duty/


Expenditure on roads is in the region of £12Bn

https://www.statista.com/statistics...-uk-public-sector-expenditure-national-roads/

Vehicle ownership and use will continue to be a source of Government revenue, however the vehicles are powered.

Vehicle use will also continue to be a source of revenue; fuel duty and VAT will merely be charged via another method, as EV and other vehicles predominate. A per mile use, adjusted for location, seems most likely to me.

 

[gingermrkettle]

If you can't afford the big bills, buy a Fiesta

Slight issue is that they are stopping making them.

The only way you could guarantee that people don't buy stupid SUVs would be if everything over 2 tonnes was limited like HGVs to 56mph/90km/h.

 

[NeilR]

But at least your grandchildren may have a clean world. ?

Bob is one of the biggest EV haters on here. I have no idea why he is so offended by them.

 

[Rockmeister]

I remember the laughter when 'smelly. oily diesels' first appeared in cars.
And remember the row when our milkman swapped his horse, cart and milk urns for bottles and an electric milk float?!
Electric OMG?