Jim Audiomisc
pfm Member
"obviously".
Alas, my concern is that she is a True Believer in the tripe she spouts. Thus more dangerous even than the plain crooks. So far as Putin is concerned, a useful idiot.
The Premiership of Mary Elizabeth Truss.Sept 2022 - Oct 2022
- Thread starter TheDecameron
- Start date
"obviously".
Alas, my concern is that she is a True Believer in the tripe she spouts. Thus more dangerous even than the plain crooks. So far as Putin is concerned, a useful idiot.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Sebastian Payne is just Darren Grimes with a degree and the tweet simply prompts the question- who copied the other’s work?
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
The VIP Lane is their greatest source of individual jeopardy IMO. We are talking about corruption in public office, of the type local authority councillors go to jail over, for minuscule sums stolen in comparison. We saw public procurement rules torn up to allow billions of pounds of public money flow into the hands of friends and family. I can’t think of another precedent.
PaulMB
pfm Member
Yes, I understand what you mean and agree. Perhaps I have seen too much of coalition power games in Italy and Israel. But, as has been pointed out by you and others in the past, there are countries that run themselves effectively with various forms of PR, with mechanisms that improve stability and decision-making.
PaulMB
pfm Member
As I admitted, I know little of UK politics. Certainly one would think that coalition should give more people the feeling that they are being taken into consideration.
matthewr
spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld
It would also pull people to the center. The Tories are, by and large, right wing arseholes but they are only allowed to behave like right wing arseholes because the electoral system allows them to do that and still win elections.
So when the Tories say "PR would mean we would never get elected again" this is wrong. What it really means is "If we ever wanted to get elected again we would have to stop being right wing arseholes because the majority of British people don't actually want that".
Which is, of course, the entire point.
sean99
pfm Member
Exactly the same over here with the GOP. If they didn't have a huge constitutional advantage in the senate the electorate would force them to moderate their positions or be forever banished from office.
Tony L
Administrator
I guess the wrong ideology (ring-fencing excessive corporate profits in an energy crisis/war) trumps no discernible perspective at all. I have to admit I was surprised she survived given how fundamentally stupid her argument, but when the opposition are as useless as they are spineless anything goes.
Bob McC
Living the life of Riley
Yes.
Shelved because it didn’t go far enough…
droodzilla
pfm Member
Yes. Because it was a mess, apparently.
However, I can see the idea being dusted off and being given a fresh lick of paint in time for the next general election.
Seanm
pfm Member
I’m not sure this is born out by recent history. Since ditching Thatcher the Tories have tried various combinations of sensible managerialism and reaction and they’ve only enjoyed real popular support since saying fck it, and going all in on the right wing arsehole thing. It’s strategic. Most Conservative politicians would be happy enough with the asset-stripping and the trough-feeding but understand that that’s of limited electoral appeal. The art of Conservative politics lies in figuring out how to align their material interests with popular resentment, prejudice and spite, of which there is a lot in this country.
Lots of reasons why this is the case but IMO the main reason the Conservatives have been so successful in growing and channeling ugly political sentiment is that really, what else is there. British politics since, what, the defeat of the miners has been one long exercise in telling people that there are no political solutions to their problems. All that’s left once that’s been decided is increasingly vicious political panto and the main beneficiaries of that are the Tories.
What I’m trying to say is that this won’t all be over once we’ve pulled politics back to the centre and established a more consensual way of doing things, whether that’s achieved by PR or not. We got here through an excess of consensus and if you look at what all the main parties are actually offering nothing much has changed, on a fundamental level.
Tony L
Administrator
I’d also argue since Thatcher/Reagan the Conservative Party have just cloned what the Republican Party are doing in the US. Marginally diluted, but the shift to a Bannon/Trump-school of alt-right popularism under Johnson and via Brexit is impossible to ignore. Truss may be a step backwards in some respects as she is totally devoid of charisma and burps up the tired failed rhetoric of Thatcher, but Braverman etc will quietly continue the attack on human rights, civil liberties, the legal system etc and push on forward with US-style electoral gerrymandering etc. I suspect it will be noticeably harder for the young and poor without access to recognised photo-ID to vote by 2024.
Darmok
pfm Member
It's like it isn't enough for them to know who you voted for in a GE.
The number printed on the back of your ballot paper refers it back to the issuing electoral role ledger!
You did know this did you not. Q
Now, they even want to add a photo record as a backup conformation reference, sheesh.
matthewr
spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld
I think their support has shifted demographically for all the well discussed reasons but this new Trumpist populism is still a minority view. Which is why they fear PR more than they used to because it could lock them out of power because they have moved out of the ground where other mainstream parties would go into government with them. They are too far gone now even for whatever is left of Orange Book Lib Dems (haha!).
I also think they have a problem in that a lot of this has been Johnson related. Indeed we saw the same thing in London where the "bloke off the TV with the funny hair" thing realigned those politics as well primarily by driving turnout in unlikely places as much as anything else. I don't see any danger of them finding another Johnson any time soon -- which is almost certainly why he is coming back and the question is really before or after the election.
Which is also why I have shifted on PR. I was generally not a fan until recent years where the Tories are getting into the early days of Trump territory. Which is why the prorogation and gerrymandering things were so big -- it was the LOOK OUT! moment and we avoided the start of the descent only because our courts are actually still ok. But we would be foolish if we didn't note this and think about how we are going to make sure that crypto-fascist Tory party can't get back in and have another go which might well succeed.
Hence I am no on board with coalitions of the non-arseholes and then electoral reform as the main priority. Indeed given what has happened in the US and places like Hungary, Turkey and Poland and I always surprised when people don't all agree that this is not only the most important thing but essentially the only thing that matters.
kensalriser
pfm Member
Johnson won't be back as he's no longer a net electoral asset for the Tories. That is why he was defenestrated.
ff1d1l
pfm Member
He's more of an electoral asset than Sugical-Support-Woman.
Low bar I know.