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The D word

Mediation mediation mediation. Just my experience but the last thing either of us wanted or felt we needed was a solicitor. And in fact the one time we let them get involved in the process all they seemed to want to do was set us up against each other. I think we eventually hired one to seal the deal, no more ( this was 12 tears ago)

Obviously everyone’s situation is different - basically we negotiated together with a mediator over several sessions to set out exactly how everything would be split and how the future would work. It was quite structured - finances, access / living arrangements, property etc. There were areas we both knew we had to compromise. Echo the above to avoid conflict if at all possible.

My wife was a bit of a saint though and made it known to everyone it was not (only) my fault. I still cry when I tell that story and the selflessness of her (and some from me) made divorce a good or at least manageable experience without blame. We are still friends and both moved. Neither of has ever tried to capture or turn the kids (they were similar age to yours). We still share holidays and socialise with her (and of course our new partners) and ‘the kids’. Still daily contact between us all on a big whatsapp group.

Once we decided to divorce - the trained mediator was the key. If one or both of us had decided we were at war I have no idea how it would have ended.
 
I guess your initial steps depend on both of you - is she wanting the same thing? Have you talked this through together / had counselling?
 
BTDT twice but both times i didn't use legal advice.

Can't say too many times keep it as friendly as possible and remember that fees effectively come out of your joint pot whoever "wins".

Practice not talking without thinking and swallow your pride as required; the long game is to end up with all four of you happy without a significant loss of assets.

I'd always prefer to give my ex £10k than a solicitor £5k but didn't tell them that!

Worked out well for my relationship with our daughter as she moved in with me at 15 and we're both very similar.

First time round i definitely had some dark days but a year later it was water under the bridge and i'd moved on, leaving a relationship that we'd both grown out of.
 
A few friends - male and female - have been through this. Prepare for the worst, hope for best would be my advice. Talk to 2/3 lawyers to understand where you stand before you kick things off. Mentally prepare for your partner to turn into a lawyered-up ranging bull. People change in these situations, a lot. Map out a draft budget - it can get expensive. Have someone outside the process to talk to - it can get stressful, charged and lonely. Figure out where you want to end up and never lose sight of that; it's easy to get sucked into battles over things that don't really matter in the long run. Conversely, many couples manage to discuss mutually agreeable paths to divorce amongst themselves or get a counsellor/mediator to help them get there. It's a far less stressful (and cheaper) way to divorce. Ideally, avoid lawyers, or as much as you can.
 
Thanks for all your advice and support.
I came to the UK 11 years ago.
I'm Portuguese and wife English.
When we came to the UK we decided for me to pursue my career whilst she would have a part time job and look after kids.
Throughout the years we have disagreed on many issues. This results on us arguing all the time and this affects the kids so I always give in to keep family harmony.
I have pointed out that now that the kids have grown up she should work full time. She refuses.

I have a good job and bring home 7x her wage. We planned to save money to buy a new house but she spends all the money every month.
When I point this out she refuses to talk to me.

I love my kids and spend every moments playing with them and taking them out but the arguments with my wife have triggered my daughter's anxiety
Kids have also pointed out that she swears at them when I'm not present.

Wife also alienated my parents and makes them feel unwelcome when they visit us.

We have talked about this several times and she always says that she's going to make an effort to change. That never happens.
Time to leave.
 
Conan said:
Thanks for all your advice and support.
I came to the UK 11 years ago.
I'm Portuguese and wife English.
When we came to the UK we decided for me to pursue my career whilst she would have a part time job and look after kids.
Throughout the years we have disagreed on many issues. This results on us arguing all the time and this affects the kids so I always give in to keep family harmony.
I have pointed out that now that the kids have grown up she should work full time. She refuses.

I have a good job and bring home 7x her wage. We planned to save money to buy a new house but she spends all the money every month.
When I point this out she refuses to talk to me.

I love my kids and spend every moments playing with them and taking them out but the arguments with my wife have triggered my daughter's anxiety
Kids have also pointed out that she swears at them when I'm not present.

Wife also alienated my parents and makes them feel unwelcome when they visit us.

We have talked about this several times and she always says that she's going to make an effort to change. That never happens.
Time to leave.
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Perhaps time for her to leave.
 
Conan said:
what would be the advice regarding initial steps to take?
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I would start by telling her rather than us!

See how she takes the news because, despite lots of folk saying keep it amicable etc, from what you have told us about her so far I think she will take the hump and hell knows no fury like a woman scorned.
 
As I recall at 14, a kid has a very strong say in where they live when their parents separate. If your elder child wants to live with you, it can be a big bonus. For me it would mean I pay nothing, as we earn about the same, and we also have 2 kids.
 
Conan said:
We planned to save money to buy a new house but she spends all the money every month.
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On what? Is she a total spendthrift or simply devoid of budgetary nous? My first wife was profligate with my credit card and I had to keep a book of arrears. It sounds like you should have approached this earlier and you don't mention whether your in-laws are involved/sympathetic/approachable.

During our 18 yr marriage (& 20 yr liaison) and 3 girls, she dragged me off to Relate a few times in the early years; pleasant but ultimately unrewarding. Eventually sold the house, split the net (ex mortgage) proceeds and bought our own houses. Luckily for me, her father left a legacy, which would have been shared, so she consented to a divorce so I could get re-married. I never learn !

I do believe you need to tabulate all the grievances (on both sides if poss.), seek friendly advice from other than a forum (even though pfm is a bit special), draw up a list of assets and debts and especially evaluate just how terminal this marriage is in the cool light of day. Def. try to get accounts and cards in both names separately; tricky but I think the financial system is part of the problem. The obv. step is to have a heart to heart with her on the pretext of accelerating costs etc. and how could she help. Moving out to rented accommodation should be the last straw on social and financial grounds and can you really afford that scenario on top of current expenses? Whatever, all the best 'cos I've been there, though all circumstances are unique albeit sometimes seemingly following a pattern.
 
Sounds like you're not going to have an easy time of it. Being reasonable, and fair doesn't seem like a priority for her. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

Start recording the financials
 
A friend of mine got divorced and ended up with a lawyer who seemed hell-bent on upping the stakes and generating conflict. My pal just wanted to leave, give the flat to his ex so that his wife and daughter could be secure and generally avoid any nastiness. His lawyer did not agree, and was pushing him to demand his "rights" and fight to keep as much as possible (and also inflate his own fees). Eventually my friend sacked this lawyer for a more sensible and measured person.

So, good advice above about "interviewing" 2 or 3 lawyers to find one who matches your style. Also good advice about mediation where you may be able to reach a consensus about what you both want for the future before getting lawyered up.
Having said all that, dividing money and property can change people for the worse...you may not recognise the person your wife becomes when she is angry, hurt, rejected and lawyered up. Fasten your seat belt and find some sensible friends and confidants.
 
Do you have your own bank account, if not open one, and transfer your salary payments into that. Also the direct debits Inc the mortgage. Remove any overdraft facility and joint/linked credit cards (might be trickier if in her name).

Tell her you'll pay all the bills and the pay from her part time job is to maintain her lifestyle. If it's not enough she can work more.

If she kicks off, at least you're in a stronger position than it sounds like now. It also confirms your view that she is spending your money not living within her means.

If she accepts it maybe things aren't as irreversible as you think
 
lawrence001 said:
Do you have your own bank account, if not open one, and transfer your salary payments into that. Also the direct debits Inc the mortgage. Remove any overdraft facility and joint/linked credit cards (might be trickier if in her name).
Tell her you'll pay all the bills and the pay from her part time job is to maintain her lifestyle. If it's not enough she can work more.
If she kicks off, at least you're in a stronger position than it sounds like now. It also confirms your view that she is spending your money not living within her means.
If she accepts it maybe things aren't as irreversible as you think
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IANAL but this sounds like pretty good advice - especially if you were to suggest to her than, in your opinion the alternative is divorce (maybe in the presence of a relationship counselor?) - which is likely to leave her worse off. It just _might_ encourage more careful financial management on her part, and maybe save the marriage.
It's a very difficult position to be the sole breadwinner not by choice - I've been there - but in the end my wife did get a decent job and, for now, things are much less stressed. I honestly don't think she had any idea how much stress it put me under.
 
sean99 said:
IANAL but this sounds like pretty good advice - especially if you were to suggest to her than, in your opinion the alternative is divorce (maybe in the presence of a relationship counselor?) - which is likely to leave her worse off. It just _might_ encourage more careful financial management on her part, and maybe save the marriage.
It's a very difficult position to be the sole breadwinner not by choice - I've been there - but in the end my wife did get a decent job and, for now, things are much less stressed. I honestly don't think she had any idea how much stress it put me under.
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Thanks
It's not just all about the money.
It's also her bullish behaviour to get what she wants.
There is no love anymore.
 
lawrence001 said:
Do you have your own bank account, if not open one, and transfer your salary payments into that. Also the direct debits Inc the mortgage. Remove any overdraft facility and joint/linked credit cards (might be trickier if in her name).

Tell her you'll pay all the bills and the pay from her part time job is to maintain her lifestyle. If it's not enough she can work more.

If she kicks off, at least you're in a stronger position than it sounds like now. It also confirms your view that she is spending your money not living within her means.

If she accepts it maybe things aren't as irreversible as you think
Click to expand...
Thanks for your help
 
Thanks all for your thoughts.
It is a very sad situation and your words are helpful.
The only friends I have in the UK are work colleagues but I like the PFM community as not only we share the same love for music and hifi but there is always some very sensible advice on many matters.
You guys are brilliant!
 
We’re really not but you are for sharing. In times of stress I usually try to find solace in the lyrics of an almost suitable Billy Bragg song:

Her father was an admiral
In someone else's navy
And she had seen the World before I met her
She would wash and cook and clean
And all the other things between
And like a fool I just sat there and let her

Now I can feed and dress and wash myself
I can sleep without the light on
Honey, I'm a big boy now
I don't know what she does
With all the money that I sent her
She's running round the town with the Young Pretender

I haven't touched the garden
Since the day she walked away
From a love affair that bore only bitter fruit
She took everything she wanted
Which is why she left me here
With these pots and pans and my old wedding suit
 
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