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Brexit: give me a positive effect (2022 remastered edition)

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NeilR said:
I suspect you’ll be coming up with the same diatribe in 5 years time and 5 years after that. Meanwhile the quality of life for EU citizens will have moved further and further ahead of those who live in declining Britain...
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All of that depends upon government policy, by which I mean the policies of successive governments both here and in Europe.
 
In the meantime I see that Italy's technocratic (unelected) PM, who himself is running out of time, has called for an end to the veto on EU foreign policy.

The EU has always gamed a crisis in its never-ending quest for power.
 
eternumviti said:
And I didn't say that the Euro won't survive this. I said that it would be tested, quite possibly close to destruction.

Then the 'brexit pound'. Who was it that mentioned whataboutery again?
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https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1...ncy-british-holidays-euro-dollar-travel-chaos

Whataboutery eh? Go on, 'ave a read. Even a Brexit rag has noticed.*

* only included because I don't want to sully your eyes with the Guardian or Independent. I take no responsibility for what else might be on their cess pit of a site, make sure your ad-blocker and spam filters are up to date. :)
 
eternumviti said:
In the meantime I see that Italy's technocratic (unelected) PM, who himself is running out of time, has called for an end to the veto on EU foreign policy.

The EU has always gamed a crisis in its never-ending quest for power.
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Politicians gaming situations, well I never. Good job the UK PM would never do that, it's just a co-incidence that he pops up in Ukraine, or makes a call to Zelenskyy every time one of his domestic chickens comes flapping home to roost.
 
As an Irish resident, I’m far happier with our 3-4 years of challenges during the EU debt crises followed by nearly 10 years of stellar growth versus the mess we have seen in the UK in the similar timeframe.

I should add - I lived in the UK for many years. I feel profoundly sad to see the deterioration there and the very evident outlook that Brexit will make it worse for years to come.
 
SteveS1 said:
Politicians gaming situations, well I never. Good job the UK PM would never do that, it's just a co-incidence that he pops up in Ukraine, or makes a call to Zelenskyy every time one of his domestic chickens comes flapping home to roost.
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Whoops, more 'whataboutery'.
 
wiresandmore said:
As an Irish resident, I’m far happier with our 3-4 years of challenges during the EU debt crises followed by nearly 10 years of stellar growth versus the mess we have seen in the UK in the similar timeframe.
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What do you put this stellar growth down to?
 
wiresandmore said:
EU membership, English language, flexible labour market, very high 3rd level participation, skills alignment with needs of MNCs.
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Look forward to joining you!

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SteveS1 said:
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1...ncy-british-holidays-euro-dollar-travel-chaos

Whataboutery eh? Go on, 'ave a read. Even a Brexit rag has noticed.*

* only included because I don't want to sully your eyes with the Guardian or Independent. I take no responsibility for what else might be on their cess pit of a site, make sure your ad-blocker and spam filters are up to date. :)
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Imagine the day when the Gammon Express, DM and Sun run front pages with “After much soul searching, we have come to the conclusion that the country’s future is best served by holding our nose and joining the single market and customs unions in a limited and specific way but we will never be rule takers. Never, never, never”.
 
SteveS1 said:
Irony alert.
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Johnson scrabbles to stay in power. In the meantime a veteran EU technocrat proposes, by means of revisiting the treaties, a further fundamental and irrevocable ratcheting of centralised EU power vis-a-vis the member states.

Sure, irony alert.
 
Let me get this right, the British PM threatens a treaty breach and trade war with the EU on the phoney pretext that Irish in the North of the island want to give up what Johnson himself described as “their best of both worlds/ oven ready deal” that he negotiated on their behalf? and now the trade war he’s threatening to invoke is sinking the pound against the € and $ which will drive up inflation further in the second worst performing economy after Russia in the G20?
 
eternumviti said:
Ah, it's angry Steve!

Its funny how any mention of the effect that the sovereign debt crisis had on Greece always brings our something uniquely ugly in the more extreme elements of pro-EU fundamentalism.

I've not seen any recent surveys on Greek sentiments to the EU or the Euro, though I assume you have. The upshot is, that they might as well like it, because they haven't the option of leaving it - the Euro has tied them irrevocably to the wider EU project, as it was always intended to do.

My comment related to the EU and its apparent purpose of bringing prosperity. Monetary union had nothing whatsoever to do with prosperity, it was merely a means to force endgame of the EU's founding ideology - political union, and centralisation of power amongst the Brussels elites. The Euro crisis, a direct result of the half-baked nature of the currency union itself - monetary union without fiscal or transfer union, the fact of a single interest rate imposed upon a range of widely variant economies, and the inability of the erstwhile sovereign governments to print money or to set their own interest rates - exposed the spiteful viciousness of the EU project when that central strand of its ideology started to come undone. The austerity imposed on the med fringe by the EU troika and Germany reduced Greek GDP by 25%, indebted the country for half a century, and caused a swathe of insolvency, job loss, homelessness, despair and suicide right across the med fringe. Ireland didn't fare too well either. When supermario said that the ECB would do whatever it would take, he wasn't kidding.

You seem to have devoted the second half of your angry tirade to the usual set of irrelevant deflections, generously seasoned with the usual incorrect assumptions about what I think and feel. Let me turn that lot back on you - it appears pretty clear from your post that you couldn't GAF about anybody or anything in relation to the EU bar the fact that membership gave you, as it did other comfortably off folk, a set of advantages which you don't like letting go of such as fast lanes at the airport, and a smug sense of being part of something rather grand and brotherly, a state of mind that requires the swallowing whole the output of the EU's finely-tuned self-propagandising machine in Brussels.

The hurricane heading our way is going to expose the Euro to its fundamental shortcomings again, and this time the ECB only has the permatanned fraudster Christine Lagarde at the helm. She's going to have her work cut out.
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It's all gone a bit angry culture war here hasn't it - foreigners, elites, Brussels!, uncaring Remainers, rich people, smugness, EU Jedi mind tricks, etc. And we get a repeat of the false flag narrative that Remainers blindly following the wonderful Ursula and her team etc (I'm not happy that she can't speak Latin btw). You seem to constantly exaggerate the threat posed by the EU whatever you think it may be (Putin is similarly afflicted despite his 'warm words' on Ukraine's application). It's almost as if you think the EU is a threat to your very existence/survival. What is the actual objective threat here? And what are your thoughts on austerity, job losses, despair, suicides, insolvencies and the homeless in this country?

PS Debt doesn't matter. The MMT crowd say so.
 
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