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Housing market

The current BBC headline -
"Boris Johnson sets out plan for benefit claimants to get mortgages"

Corrected for them:

"Boris Johnson sets out the final last ditch plan to prop up UK house prices before it all goes horribly wrong and much of the UK population lose the shirts off their backs".

Really could not believe this today...

 
So, if you can save £15,999 of your benefits (you lose them after saving any more) and try to find out if it's enough for a deposit on a house, as soon as you have a mortgage your benefits are stopped. Another headlining policy that has not been thought out!
 
Terrifying stuff.
I received an e-mail from First Direct yesterday suggesting I could get a mortgage and I should try their online calculator to see how much I could borrow.....4.75 times my salary.
House prices at record levels, house price/average salary ratio at all time highs, and crazy mortgage offers....this is only going one way...
 
This latest addendum to governments' property market tweaking purely concerns housing associations and the like, as far as I can see. Whereas as a council tenant you could stay where you are but become an owner for a heavily discounted sum, if you owned half your property and a company owns t'other, it was a different matter. You could sell your half back, I believe, and buy your half from the company but at market rates if they agree/your lease allows.

My next door neighbours have been in that position for nigh on 30 years and when I told him a week ago that sth was in the pipeline, his eyes lit up, as they have always been compromised in improving the place (i.e. spending money). Not sure if, as they're both retired, they have the wherewithall to take out a mortgage/put down a deposit etc. I hope so, because they've just had a new (but space compromised) new kitchen, having been unable to have an easy extension to their kitchen area.
 
Woodface said:
I think you are contradicting yourself.

This generation also wants different things, more about experiences than possessions & this is also a factor. I didn’t go abroad from the ages of 15 to 24, my honeymoon was spent in Weymouth. I work in media so probably not representative but many people 10-15 years younger than me seem to have different priorities.

I don’t think deferred gratification is a thing anymore & London certainly distorts the general picture.

I don’t think you can define a generation purely in relation to whether they are on the property ladder.
Click to expand...

This is not a big mystery we are trying to unpick here but just the result of lots of data and research based on various public records because this is literally *stuff that has already happened*. And the data is very clear, there are statistically significant advantages in terms of living space, property ownership, lifetime earnings, wealth ownership (assets, pensions, etc) if you were born between (about) 1945 and 1980.

And if you were born after that you will live your life without these significant advantages. To the extent that Millennials are looking like they will be the first generation we have seen that will be worse off than their parents by many significant metrics.

Woodface said:
It’s an interesting point. How do they define ‘spend’, is this excluding bills/rent/mortgage?
Click to expand...

Watch the video I posted which is basically the man who runs the Resolution Foundation laughingboy mentions talking about this data and what it all means. Or, if you don't want to watch an hour long public lecture on this, just can scan the video timeline with your mouse and find the graphs which show the data on which his points are based.

Or see this PDF here : https://www.resolutionfoundation.or...ntergenerational-commission-launch-report.pdf
 
robs said:
Terrifying stuff.
I received an e-mail from First Direct yesterday suggesting I could get a mortgage and I should try their online calculator to see how much I could borrow.....4.75 times my salary.
House prices at record levels, house price/average salary ratio at all time highs, and crazy mortgage offers....this is only going one way...
Click to expand...

4.75 still wouldn't be enough for me!
 
Tony Lockhart said:
So, if you can save £15,999 of your benefits (you lose them after saving any more) and try to find out if it's enough for a deposit on a house, as soon as you have a mortgage your benefits are stopped. Another headlining policy that has not been thought out!
Click to expand...

The idea sounds like the (premeditated) start of another sub prime lending bubble to me. Anything to keep the plates spinning.
 
matthewr said:
This is not a big mystery we are trying to unpick here but just the result of lots of data and research based on various public records because this is literally *stuff that has already happened*. And the data is very clear, there are statistically significant advantages in terms of living space, property ownership, lifetime earnings, wealth ownership (assets, pensions, etc) if you were born between (about) 1945 and 1980.

And if you were born after that you will live your life without these significant advantages. To the extent that Millennials are looking like they will be the first generation we have seen that will be worse off than their parents by many significant metrics.
Click to expand...

Hmm.. there are other scenarios. My kids are born in 1998 and 2000. So you would think that they will fall into this 'less well off' than previous generations group. I was born in '57.. my wife in '60. Both of us are about to retire and our financial advisors are already mumbling loudly about inheritance tax planning. Especially me as I have been recently diagnosed with a probable life limiting situation. The reality is that our kids are going to see money trickle down to them much earlier than we saw anything and as a result will get pretty significant boosts. In fact they are likely to get on the housing ladder earlier in their lives than I did. Many people of our acquaintance find themselves able to help with house deposits for their kids. This sort of thing keeps the housing market going.

Whereas I got no help at all to get on the ladder, none. But I was able to fund my first deposit by selling my car when a company car arrived, so getting on the ladder was less 'expensive', but mortgage income multiples were stuck at at 2 or 2.5x salary back then, and interest rates were in the teens!
 
JensenHealey said:
Hmm.. there are other scenarios. My kids are born in 1998 and 2000. So you would think that they will fall into this 'less well off' than previous generations group. I was born in '57.. my wife in '60. Both of us are about to retire and our financial advisors are already mumbling loudly about inheritance tax planning. Especially me as I have been recently diagnosed with a probable life limiting situation. The reality is that our kids are going to see money trickle down to them much earlier than we saw anything and as a result will get pretty significant boosts. In fact they are likely to get on the housing ladder earlier in their lives than I did. Many people of our acquaintance find themselves able to help with house deposits for their kids. This sort of thing keeps the housing market going.

Whereas I got no help at all to get on the ladder, none. But I was able to fund my first deposit by selling my car when a company car arrived, so getting on the ladder was less 'expensive', but mortgage income multiples were stuck at at 2 or 2.5x salary back then, and interest rates were in the teens!
Click to expand...

You should phone up the Resolution Foundation as they will need to revisit their literal mountains of data in the light of your anecdote. This is game changing stuff.
 
matthewr said:
This is not a big mystery we are trying to unpick here but just the result of lots of data and research based on various public records because this is literally *stuff that has already happened*. And the data is very clear, there are statistically significant advantages in terms of living space, property ownership, lifetime earnings, wealth ownership (assets, pensions, etc) if you were born between (about) 1945 and 1980.

And if you were born after that you will live your life without these significant advantages. To the extent that Millennials are looking like they will be the first generation we have seen that will be worse off than their parents by many significant metrics.



Watch the video I posted which is basically the man who runs the Resolution Foundation laughingboy mentions talking about this data and what it all means. Or, if you don't want to watch an hour long public lecture on this, just can scan the video timeline with your mouse and find the graphs which show the data on which his points are based.

Or see this PDF here : https://www.resolutionfoundation.or...ntergenerational-commission-launch-report.pdf
Click to expand...
Umm, a study. What makes it indisputable truth?

JensenHealey said:
Hmm.. there are other scenarios. My kids are born in 1998 and 2000. So you would think that they will fall into this 'less well off' than previous generations group. I was born in '57.. my wife in '60. Both of us are about to retire and our financial advisors are already mumbling loudly about inheritance tax planning. Especially me as I have been recently diagnosed with a probable life limiting situation. The reality is that our kids are going to see money trickle down to them much earlier than we saw anything and as a result will get pretty significant boosts. In fact they are likely to get on the housing ladder earlier in their lives than I did. Many people of our acquaintance find themselves able to help with house deposits for their kids. This sort of thing keeps the housing market going.

Whereas I got no help at all to get on the ladder, none. But I was able to fund my first deposit by selling my car when a company car arrived, so getting on the ladder was less 'expensive', but mortgage income multiples were stuck at at 2 or 2.5x salary back then, and interest rates were in the teens!
Click to expand...
This is reality.

Sorry to learn of your health issue.

matthewr said:
You should phone up the Resolution Foundation as they will need to revisit their literal mountains of data in the light of your anecdote. This is game changing stuff.
Click to expand...
Quite a patronising post there for some reason.

I was born in 1958 and my kids ( born 1990 and 1992 ) have way more in terms of opportunities and 'material things' than I ever did. Same among my family and friends.

Sorry that's personal experience rather than some study or other. :rolleyes:
 
Housing market shenanigans or personal wealth creation journeys? One would think they are connected in some way. Don't we Brits just love our bricks and mortar fiefdoms? We may not be alone in this but certainly set the trend, I feel. ;)
 
Brian said:
Quite a patronising post there for some reason.
Click to expand...

Because this is about the third go around in this thread where people respond to legitimate research from a reliable and respected source and based on comprehensive, public data with personal anecdotes. And my previous gentle pointing out of this didn't seem to be making the point. By all means disagree but expecting to engage with the subject matter in a reasonable and thoughtful way rather than a "what I reckon" is hardly a big ask.

Also the sheer anti-intellectualism of this sort of thing just grinds my gears because it undermines so much of contemporary politics, journalism and social discourse.
 
Sorry I left my social studies degree behind 20 odd years ago.

Property wealth is only paper anyway for most of us. I am fine with the research but I dislike the way it gets spun into inter generational conflict. I don’t like the way that older people are sometimes resented, yes they’ve been ‘lucky’ in some ways but not in others.

I do try & look at things in the round. I probably had better educational opportunities in some ways than my dad, quite debatable, but my son has had more advantage than I did.

I don’t know whether or how my son will benefit from this financially. One thing is for sure that while ever interest rates are low house prices will rise.

Even if we do have a price crash it is unlikely to make any material difference to affordability. Where does all this house price inflation go, will subsequent generations benefit through inheritance?
 
Brian said:
Umm, a study. What makes it indisputable truth?


This is reality.

Sorry to learn of your health issue.


Quite a patronising post there for some reason.

I was born in 1958 and my kids ( born 1990 and 1992 ) have way more in terms of opportunities and 'material things' than I ever did. Same among my family and friends.

Sorry that's personal experience rather than some study or other. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Well said. Me too.
 
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