advertisement


USB CABLE

chiily said:
Probably is a stress test for those fiddly DIN pin solder connections. And they are bloody fiddly to solder right.
Click to expand...
That's what I initially thought, but Naim state that it improves SQ... I guess a working cable sounds better than a broken one.
 
I fully accept that expectation bias is a thing and it can influence short-term decision making.
For the record, I believe I have discerned differences in USB cables, but IMO the differences are minor and would be hard to pick in a controlled A/B (whatever that is).

But that's not the way I, and I think many others, compare equipment/cables.
Generally we plug in a new widget and leave it for days or weeks to get used to the sound, then put the original widget back in.
For me this by-passes expectation bias and reveals what changed for better or worse (or just plain different), more reliably than a quick swap-in/out.
 
Colin L said:
I fully accept that expectation bias is a thing and it can influence short-term decision making.
For the record, I believe I have discerned differences in USB cables, but IMO the differences are minor and would be hard to pick in a controlled A/B (whatever that is).

But that's not the way I, and I think many others, compare equipment/cables.
Generally we plug in a new widget and leave it for days or weeks to get used to the sound, then put the original widget back in.
For me this by-passes expectation bias and reveals what changed for better or worse (or just plain different), more reliably than a quick swap-in/out.
Click to expand...
Aye that's my method, if I miss the new kit it gets put back in and the replaced item shifted or sold.
 
Colin L said:
I fully accept that expectation bias is a thing and it can influence short-term decision making.
For the record, I believe I have discerned differences in USB cables, but IMO the differences are minor and would be hard to pick in a controlled A/B (whatever that is).

But that's not the way I, and I think many others, compare equipment/cables.
Generally we plug in a new widget and leave it for days or weeks to get used to the sound, then put the original widget back in.
For me this by-passes expectation bias and reveals what changed for better or worse (or just plain different), more reliably than a quick swap-in/out.
Click to expand...
If you know which is in circuit then it hasn’t bypassed anything.
Keith
 
Purité Audio said:
That company has a very low opinion of the intelligence of it’s customers.
Keith
Click to expand...
You sell £5K and £8K DACs when you are 100% certain the £400 one you sell sounds identical, you've stated that on here several times?

What’s the difference between a Naim customer and a Weiss or Mola Mola customer in your opinion?
 
Daniel Weiss would never state that shaking a cable would improve its sound quality, cables should have stress relief built in.
Ask Naim for some measurements of before and after ‘shaking’ for the sound to change ( highly unlikely ) the measurements will have had to change.
Naim I presume believe that it’s customers will just believe.
Keith
 
chiily said:
They can't be wrong, but don't think it is the USB cable's doing. :)
Click to expand...
But it might be... the simple answer is that we don't know for sure. Measurement may suggest that there is no difference but this relies on the accuracy of the measurement and that we are actually measuring the right things. Ironically there is an element of explanational bias applied to measurement results as well (i.e. we don't expect them to be wrong!). I'm in no way suggesting that all measurement results are bunkem but we do need to have an understanding of the limitations of measurement.
 
Purité Audio said:
Daniel Weiss would never state that shaking a cable would improve its sound quality, cables should have stress relief built in.
Ask Naim for some measurements of before and after ‘shaking’ for the sound to change ( highly unlikely ) the measurements will have had to change.
Naim I presume believe that it’s customers will just believe.
Keith
Click to expand...
Can you just unpack this statement a bit more please?
 
Greyandy said:
But it might be... the simple answer is that we don't know for sure. Measurement may suggest that there is no difference but this relies on the accuracy of the measurement and that we are actually measuring the right things. Ironically there is an element of explanational bias applied to measurement results as well (i.e. we don't expect them to be wrong!). I'm in no way suggesting that all measurement results are bunkem but we do need to have an understanding of the limitations of measurement.
Click to expand...
For a USB cable we are measuring the right things; bits in, equals bits out. It can't be anymore than that. What the DAC does with that is up to the DAC.

And the input to the DAC will be framed, you can't present a DAC with say 17bits and ask it to convert it if it's a 16bit DAC.

I'd be more worried about the power and gnd lines in the USB cable.
 
Again; to those saying 'you can't measure what I hear...' then put it up to a simple ABX test. I'll wager you absolutely cannot identify different USB cables in a true blind test.
 
adamdea said:
I’m sure you know all this 1000 times more then I do, but experience suggests that the expression “expectation bias” can lead to people claiming that they can’t have had it because they expected the opposite (or nothing). Theses cognitive biases do not have to be based on expectation, snd they are legion.

Aside from the various cognitive biases, there is a beguiling but highly misleading idea that one’s brain/hearing system is a sort of single input sound quality measurement device. I’m sure you know all this but we have a form of sensory integration which means that our brain uses non sound inputs to adjust what one hears, and we construct our sound “map” using a model based on past information and unconscious assumptions. Having a sound experience which does not directly correspond with the sound input is not a bug, it’s a feature. All of this adds to the point that the act of identifying a particular experience to a particular sound object is inherently unreliable however intuitively obvious it may seem.

It is not open-minded to ignore this.
Click to expand...

An excellent post, and as usual the protagonists will choose to ignore it for fear of looking foolish.
 
chiily said:
Probably is a stress test for those fiddly DIN pin solder connections. And they are bloody fiddly to solder right.
Click to expand...


That's a perfectly valid QC test by naim, checking solder joint integrity and reliving stress in uneven wires. The explanation is total bollocks
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top