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Ukraine III

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anubisgrau said:
In that case, Putin would find a way to ensure his interest without the (open) war. Me thinks.
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Possibly, but this assumes that Ukraine’s desire to resist regime change would have evaporated without US and NATO coordinated support. Based on what we’ve seen to date, I don’t think we can make that assumption.
 
sean99 said:
more men than women are psychopaths.
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Are you sure ?

My version is that psychopathy is pretty evenly distributed among men and women, but more men happen to be in a function where this could have tragic consequences.

More generally I don’t buy into the currently fashionable stance that women are per se for peace, and men for war. The picture is a little more complicated than that.

That said, actions like the intervention of Marina Ovsiannikova on Russian TV certainly have a great PR effect, and they deserve our support.
 
Hook said:
Our history of disrupting the affairs of other countries is terrible, but I think the same can be said about almost every country that has ever been in a position to promote their own self-interest at the expense of others. It seems the more powerful the nation, the worse the meddling.

That said, I like to think we are currently acting more honorably, with perhaps a wider sense of enlightened self-interest. I also shudder to think where Ukraine would be right now if the 2020 election had gone differently, or if 1/6 had kept you know who in office. Thank goodness his attempt to splinter NATO failed, and we are not listening to a President orange anus farting out pro-Putin propaganda on a daily basis.
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It is a pity the US did not become more enlightened. Cuba still under sanctions what's that about? All the interventions in South America, Asia and so on. Nobody has come up with a fair system to prevent the greediest and richest out of hands reach of power.
 
DimitryZ said:
Yes, that appears to be a growing business.

I monitor Russian news sources, now almost entirely government controlled. Today the People's Republic of Donetsk announced that Mariupol has been fully denazified.

That was the lead news Russians read/saw today.

Ukranians under Russian control report that local radio stations now play Soviet songs and Putin's speeches.
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A new word for liberate? But it really means flattened to the ground.
 
DimitryZ said:
I think Putin's Russia has steadily acquired the other features you list to qualify as a near-fascist or full-fascist entity. Checks all the main boxes.
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Of course, as a brutal, autocratic dictator, Putin’s regime will share the characteristics we recognise from historic instances of fascism. The crucial difference is Putin was essentially appointed by the Russian regime as Yeltsin’s successor. He did not come to power at the head of a huge movement railing against ‘corruption and decadence’ whose membership displayed a highly ideological commitment to him personally and the system he represents. He has no ‘ideology’ as such, beyond a vague chip on his shoulder about restoring the ‘Russian Empire.’

The collapse of the Soviet Union encouraged the belief in the Russian population that they were now free to enjoy the same standard of living the west had enjoyed during the period of the post-war boom. When it very quickly became obvious that the whole Russian economy would tank because of the ‘shock therapy’ imposed by the west, Putin gained little affection in the eyes of ordinary Russians. There is certainly no ‘cult of personality’ around Putin as there was with Hitler, or even Stalin or Mao. He is remarkably free of charisma.

Hitler used the highly ideologically committed SA to smash the left. Then, once this was achieved, he liquidated them in The Night Of The Long Knives, leaving the SS as the ideological core of Nazism and the Gestapo as its ruthless enforcer. The Gestapo and the SS were completely ideologically devoted to both the third Reich and The Fuhrer, ensuring unquestioning loyalty.

This may seem like splitting hairs when Putin is murdering Ukrainians but it is important in the context of the internal opposition Putin is likely to encounter as the war drags on and Russian families sons’ are returned to them in body bags- many of them conscripts who do not want to be there. There have been some surprisingly large and incredibly brave anti-war protests in Russia. This suggests the Russian population are neither ideologically invested in Putin as a Great Leader, nor are completely cowed into submission by his repressive apparatus. All fascists are evil b*stards, but not all evil b*stards are fascist.
 
Why UK can't make this confiscation attempt proper? I don't understand, just as I don't understand when oligarchs are welcome and when not. Deripaska was a financier of Montenegro independence from a federation with Serbia in 2006, very much steered and fueled by the West, including UK.
 
MVV said:
I can’t help thinking that most of our ills are a result of toxic masculinity. None of this w**k would be happening if our world leaders were women.
FFS having gone through a global pandemic you really would have hoped we could be a bit better than this!
… and the really shit bit is they get to carry the pain and the ‘hero’s’ get to be just dead.
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Time for Ivor
 
Cheese said:
Are you sure ?

My version is that psychopathy is pretty evenly distributed among men and women, but more men happen to be in a function where this could have tragic consequences.
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^ This.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...he_impact_of_empathy_anxiety_and_self-control

Psychopathy is a continuum of traits with men more likely to demonstrate the primary traits of psychopathy and women more likely to demonstrate, the secondary traits.

A-summary-of-Karpmans-depiction-of-primary-and-secondary-psychopathy-depicting-distinct.png



However, (noting IANAP), whilst Putin's behaviour exhibits some psychopathic / sociopathic traits, I think that's too easy a box to put him in. Yo can add narcissist / Machiavellian as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_triad. Of course, it may be he's totally rational and his behaviour is merely his indoctrination as a KGB Officer with the benefit of 30+ years of people agreeing with him and reinforcing it's the right beliefs and approach.

The_Dark_Triad_Traits.jpg
 
matthewr said:
On the conflict between older and younger progressives.

https://twitter.com/OzKaterji/status/1504028429104164870
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Oz has certain preoccupations. This doesn't ring at all true to me and some aspects of it seem to be an inversion of reality. Who are these "very mainstream figures" engaged in war crimes revisionism? Who makes up the "entire generation of pundits" critical of the Iraq War? I mean, most pundits were very much in favour of that war at the time, and they're still in their posts, and not exactly apologetic.

I think he's mistaken a small number of Tankie shitposters on Twitter for the "Anglo-left space". That's a big problem with a lot of these guys.
 
why, how come?

Amazon removes Azov National Battalion T-shirts from its merchandise

Also missing from the catalog were stripes, cups and books with the regiment's symbol.
 
Seanm said:
Oz has certain preoccupations. This doesn't ring at all true to me and some aspects of it seem to be an inversion of reality. Who are these "very mainstream figures" engaged in war crimes revisionism? Who makes up the "entire generation of pundits" critical of the Iraq War? I mean, most pundits were very much in favour of that war at the time, and they're still in their posts, and not exactly apologetic.

I think he's mistaken a small number of Tankie shitposters on Twitter for the "Anglo-left space". That's a big problem with a lot of these guys.
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Fair points. And I should perhaps have stated that I am not completely convinced by his argument. I suspect his "mainstream figures" is very relative and he is talking about people like Bastani rather than Op Eds in The Times or BBC reporting. But I do agree with him to some extent that people seem so hung up on the US as The Great Evil that it dilutes their take on Russia, Putin and Ukraine.

It is increasingly noticeable to me that a lot of this stuff depends on your personal context. I am the classic terminally online so a lot of political debate I experience is framed by young, online voices where the progressives (as they would call themselves) outnumber the Tankies. A similar thing happens in the Trans debate where I consider J.K. Rowling essentially a transphobe (albeit in a sense that requries a two hour Contrapoints video to explain properly) but most of my long standing left leaning friends think she is standing up against Twitter insanity.

And generally Twitter is much less insane if one follows people rather than hashtags and stay out of the comments.
 
Seanm said:
Oz has certain preoccupations. This doesn't ring at all true to me and some aspects of it seem to be an inversion of reality. Who are these "very mainstream figures" engaged in war crimes revisionism? Who makes up the "entire generation of pundits" critical of the Iraq War? I mean, most pundits were very much in favour of that war at the time, and they're still in their posts, and not exactly apologetic.

I think he's mistaken a small number of Tankie shitposters on Twitter for the "Anglo-left space". That's a big problem with a lot of these guys.
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The terrifying thing is that the Daddy of them all, Blair is back on the scene saying force should not be taken off the table. I think he’s even more likely to trigger WW3 than Truss.
 
matthewr said:
I would agree that people like Blair and Bush have weaseled out of responsibility for starting a major war one false pretenses and causing a major humanitarian disaster. But I am not aware of anyone who doesn't accept this in the social and media circles I move in. Although to be fair I don't watch breakfast tv and haven't heard from Alistair Campbell for over a decade.
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Ah, OK, it's that context thing. You read outside the mainstream, as do I.

My benchmark here is The Guardian which, for many people, defines the outer limit of progressive thought (sad, I know). Blair always seems welcome there.

I don't understand why the Chilcot report didn't bury Blair for good, yet here we are.
 
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