JTC
PFM Villager...
Holy moly.No! Not out of business...They now survive as soldiers of fortune on the Los Angeles underground making a sort of "hi-fi iron maiden" which pokes spikes into your equipment....
Linn LP12 vs Digital
- Thread starter Radiohead99
- Start date
Tony L
Administrator
No! Not out of business...They now survive as soldiers of fortune on the Los Angeles underground making a sort of "hi-fi iron maiden" which pokes spikes into your equipment....
Hmmm, so now when buying kit we actually need to check that some stoned moron hasn’t driven spikes into the casework?!
gustav_errata
pfm Member
It seems charitable to assume they were stoned.
Nic Robinson
Moderator
There are those who say a Steinway is not a Steinway unless reconditioned with only Steinway parts. This is, of course, irrelevant to the quality of work and finished result.
Nic Robinson
Moderator
I can confirm that a) my own LP12 was somewhat beyond that level, b) my Lenco, Garrards and Technics all outperform it. Whether they do so "musically" is as debatable as what that term actually means. Suffice to say, they are all rather better.
It's an interesting question, not one I think will ever be definitively answered and to be honest who cares, but a parallel is instructive.
I've long thought of the LP12 as the Fender Stratocaster of the Hi-Fi world. A flattering but totally deserved comparison in my opinion. Both have been in continuous production for decades and have been released in many different 'trim levels' at different prices. Both enjoy enduring popularity despite ever present voices saying that various aspects of performance can be bettered by choosing competing products. Clearly they are doing something fundamentally right but the point that's relevant to this debate is that both are essentially modular and their popularity has meant a wide array of aftermarket parts.
In fact, just as with the Linn, it is possible to built a Strat-style guitar with no Fender parts. So at what point does a Fender Strat stop being a Fender Strat?
If you swap the pickups on a Fender Strat is it still a Fender Strat? Fender themselves have used many different pickups from different manufacturers. The strings? The pots? The neck? At what point does it stop being a Fender and become a Strat-style guitar?
I would say that the situation is broadly similar. The term LP12 should be thought of as the broad configuration of the turntable and is an ok name to apply to even a fully aftermarket deck, just as there are many 'Strats' with no fender parts. The names Linn and Fender are fine to use if the machine is based on a predominantly Linn or Fender chassis, even if it is modified.
That's my take but I'm not dogmatic about it because I really don't care enough.
John
Rack’em Up!
So from what I gather, you had a LP12, pre-Cirkus, Lingo1 and Ittok before moving on. Good for you!
Nic Robinson
Moderator
Correct. And I enjoyed it for many years.
sonddek
Trade: SUPATRAC
The first time I really listened to a 1200 critically it had an RB300 on it. I soon switched in my Ekos 2/Arkiv Boron. It was thrilling. There is something about the way some decks can maintain the pitch of sustained notes as they build or recede which lends great poignancy to music of all kinds - everything falls into place. It was a revelation for me after several decades without that pitch stability and metronomic timing. I even began to enjoy Ultravox, if you can believe it! I know. I think maintaining rotational speed very accurately is really important to the intelligibility and emotional effect of tunes. Maybe we each have a different threshold for pitch stability.
Richard Lines
pfm Member
Good Evening,
As somebody very likely to part with their LP12 shortly I wonder what is taking Linn so long to produce an integrated plinth/ top plate carved from solid, it seems a perfectly logical solution which probably explains why Tangerine have already done it.......
Regards
Richard
As somebody very likely to part with their LP12 shortly I wonder what is taking Linn so long to produce an integrated plinth/ top plate carved from solid, it seems a perfectly logical solution which probably explains why Tangerine have already done it.......
Regards
Richard
sunbeamgls
pfm Member
You give lots of descriptions of the characteristics of the sound.
But which one brings you the biggest emotional response? Which one makes you feel the music? That's the source you should focus on.
Tony L
Administrator
Heybrook and Logic did it way back in the ‘80s! It would be very interesting to compare the TT2 and DM-101 to a more recent Linn as whilst the Linn’s warmth and bounce was really valued back then I suspect it has moved rather closer to these two decks sonically since.
Maybe they don't like the way it sounds?
Yes, they could make one very easily. It is exactly the kind of part they can manufacture in house and I'm sure they are aware of the idea. But what everyone seems to forget is that Linn want their deck to sound a certain way. They want it to sound like an LP12, not like a Rega or a Technics or anything else. And maybe some of these 'upgrades' make it sound like less LP12-like.
And sure, some people will think that's better and that's fine, but that's not Linn's job. I don't know what these metal plinths sound like, maybe they are great, but I'm not assuming they are or assuming Linn think they are.
jimification
pfm Member
Yes, There are at least four of these aluminium plinths now: Tangerine, Tiger Paw, Stack Audio and Mober (though the Mober actually bolts together in sections)
If plinths make a difference to the sound (and I've no reason to doubt that they do) then either vibration must be getting to the cartridge through the suspension springs / tonearm cable OR different plinth materials have different affects on motor vibration (or both)
Perhaps plinth materials would therefore make less difference to decks with better setup suspension and quieter motors
None of them are cheap! :0.
I am sure that I read somewhere that Linn did experiment with a one piece plinth/top plate machined from a block of aluminium but didn't feel the benefits were worth the cost - given the price of the Keel, it must have been very expensive
Salamander
pfm Member
Would you please verify which Technics 1200 deck you are talking about
Richard Lines
pfm Member
Interesting suggestion. Given that one of the criticisms I read of a modern LP12 is that it doesn't sound like an LP12 used to and sounds more CD like or some similar kind of statements it might be difficult to determine exactly what that "Linn sound" is because it must be a moving goalpost. If I had the time and an indulgent dealer it might be interesting to hear a 1972 device up again the late 2021 Klimax. I suspect there will be little point of contact between the two.
OK so give me a clue - which bit of the current LP12 is cheap??? I guess, to an extent, it depends on your disposable income but there is nothing cheap about the current device. £6,400 for a machined Radikal or £5,500 for an Ekstatik or £4,000 for an Ekos SE????????????? What's £4,900 for a machined plinth?
Please note I consider these out of my justifiable price range at this time.
Regards
Richard
Del monaco
Del Monaco
There’s sometimes a presumption that if a TT is 6 x more expensive than £1000 turntable then it most be at least 6 x better. Not really the case. They charge that amount because they know some people will pay. They pay for the pride of ownership, the legacy and because it’s a fine turntable. I used an Audi analogy recently. A ‘prestige’ car with average reliability and questionable engineering costs a small fortune to buy and maintain. You are buying into years of clever marketing. The marketing puts it on a pinnacle but the reality is different.It’s just a decent car that can be bettered in many areas by cheaper alternatives.
This is why I look to second hand, vintage and good buys. The Maggies are proof that even today, you can buy into the ‘higher end’ for entry level money.And they are not the only goodies. Look at the Regas etc, and how they challenge the elder statesmen.
I fell for marketIng bull in the past. I’m now wise to it.
This is why I look to second hand, vintage and good buys. The Maggies are proof that even today, you can buy into the ‘higher end’ for entry level money.And they are not the only goodies. Look at the Regas etc, and how they challenge the elder statesmen.
I fell for marketIng bull in the past. I’m now wise to it.