what really happened during the late 70s early 80s in the hifi press
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earlofsodbury
Wastrel.
One deck killed idler drive's rep, and that was the woeful Garrard SP 25 - sounded like a tin-plate toy turntable and (if I rcall correctly) actually got worse as Garrard desperately tried to compete on price with heavily-subsidised Japanese competition.
Eyebroughty
JohnC
Hi,
There was of course another possible reason why HiFi became popular in the 1970-80's
Home entertainment, in the UK, was four TV stations, some radio stations the video rental shops were in every town and whatever books you could read.
There was no Sky until late in the 1980's, no internet or social media and to chat to others you either went to the pub or a local club.
Also at that time Citizens Band Radio and Amateur Radio grew in popularity from both listeners and those wanting to become fully licenced, it had a very large following in some areas.
Music also was on the radio much more and people started to want better music systems, I think the timeline of when Linn, Naim, Rega, Nad, Nytech along with a few different speakers to suit the average size home started when a few HiFi shops opened dealing in what they saw as the best of UK music systems.
The HIFi boom was possibly born out of that need for more entertainment because of the lack of what was available to people in the UK when at home.
If someone has already mentioned this apologies for repeating it.
Cheers
John
There was of course another possible reason why HiFi became popular in the 1970-80's
Home entertainment, in the UK, was four TV stations, some radio stations the video rental shops were in every town and whatever books you could read.
There was no Sky until late in the 1980's, no internet or social media and to chat to others you either went to the pub or a local club.
Also at that time Citizens Band Radio and Amateur Radio grew in popularity from both listeners and those wanting to become fully licenced, it had a very large following in some areas.
Music also was on the radio much more and people started to want better music systems, I think the timeline of when Linn, Naim, Rega, Nad, Nytech along with a few different speakers to suit the average size home started when a few HiFi shops opened dealing in what they saw as the best of UK music systems.
The HIFi boom was possibly born out of that need for more entertainment because of the lack of what was available to people in the UK when at home.
If someone has already mentioned this apologies for repeating it.
Cheers
John
Robert
Tapehead
I would agree with that, though things can get a little complicated when you break things down into design and manufacture.
Couple of examples, Wharfedale and Mission were formally UK owned with visionaries at the helm but now sit as part of a large foreign owned group. However both ranges were designed by Peter Comeau, of course ex of Heybrook and he's pretty hands-on with the design.
KEF are another example, owned for over 20 years now by Goldpeak and yet the designs originate from a UK team with members stretching back many years. Lots of their kit is built in China though some in the UK.
It coincided with the beginning of subjective reviewing.
Earlier all reviewers had the equipment and expertise to evaluate how well stuff worked.
In the 1970s, following the lead of Jean Hiraga it was open season for anybody to review stuff just by listening to it, for better or worse, so literally anybody, whether they understood what was going on or not, could have a go and their opinion become valid.
Cult and suggestibility is easy in these circumstances and that is what happened. Whatever was fashionable in different countries (I was travelling all over the world for work from the mid-1970s to 2010) varied enormously depending on the fashionable local reviewer and his manufacturer or distributor mates.
It was, and is to an extent but less now the internet has evened it up a bit, amazing to see something that was considered the dogs danglies in one country being meh or not mentioned elsewhere.
HiFi is a fashion business and fashions change.
Mind you before I started travelling I worked as an R&D engineer for Garrard and the amount of total bollocks which has become "common knowledge" about record players is very disappointing.
A record player is a seismic vibration transducer not a quasi-static device.
Earlier all reviewers had the equipment and expertise to evaluate how well stuff worked.
In the 1970s, following the lead of Jean Hiraga it was open season for anybody to review stuff just by listening to it, for better or worse, so literally anybody, whether they understood what was going on or not, could have a go and their opinion become valid.
Cult and suggestibility is easy in these circumstances and that is what happened. Whatever was fashionable in different countries (I was travelling all over the world for work from the mid-1970s to 2010) varied enormously depending on the fashionable local reviewer and his manufacturer or distributor mates.
It was, and is to an extent but less now the internet has evened it up a bit, amazing to see something that was considered the dogs danglies in one country being meh or not mentioned elsewhere.
HiFi is a fashion business and fashions change.
Mind you before I started travelling I worked as an R&D engineer for Garrard and the amount of total bollocks which has become "common knowledge" about record players is very disappointing.
A record player is a seismic vibration transducer not a quasi-static device.
Theo
pfm Member
Hi Jim
I also have a copy of that Berriman review! I remember hearing a Bespoke Audio system at a hifi show in the late '70s/early '80s (could have been Harrogate, possibly Last Drop Hotel, Bolton), and being utterly mesmerised by the L-07D/Albarry/Allison system. It sounded magnificent, and I came away knowing that I wanted an L-07D, but couldn't afford it.
I then succumbed to the hifi press at the time and bought an LP12 (it was then half the cost of the L-07D). The money spent on it over the years until I finally got off the bandwagon is chastening. After 27 years, I sold it to buy the very same L-07D from that show (sold to me by the guy from Bespoke). It got fettled and rebuilt, and has given me 10 years of trouble-free service since. Yes, it's had an additional arm and countless cartridge rebuilds, but the t/t itself is as it was 10 years ago. It sounds fantastic, without any of the paranoia of future upgrades. I expect it to see me out.
The press weren't all biased: it pointed me towards Exposure amplification and a number of other items I had over the years (Micromega, Esoteric, Neat) which I have loved and cherished. I could never understand the love for Naim amplification though, and I borrowed enough of it in an attempt to convince myself. Ultimately, I realised that the press presents an opinion (biased or otherwise) which doesn't have to tally with my experience (or my ears). Having said that, reading some of the old equipment reviews from those days brings back fond memories of reviewers with strongly-held opinions
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Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
I acknowledge this, up to a point, but I think we should recall that prior to this, reviews barely mentioned what the product actually sounded like. So they catered almost exclusively to a technical audience. They were little use for anybody trying to choose between competing products, and were largely predicated on the idea that once it passed the 'good enough' threshold, there was nothing more to be said in terms of what it sounded like. Considerations of choice focussed more on technical suitability with partnering devices.
Subjective reviews, on the other hand, can help a lay reader to form a mental picture of whether a particular product might be of interest to them. Leaving aside arguments about peer pressure, running with the pack, and all that, musical tastes vary across the world, so it would be surprising if different hifi presentations didn't similarly vary. So I'm not sure whether 'whatever was fashionable in different countries' was down to influential reviewers, or down to particular equipment strengths aligning with the regional musical culture and tastes.
Beobloke
pfm Member
Nooooo! The SP25Mk3 can be made to sound quite respectable if you know what you're doing, and a healthy belt drive Mk.6 is surprisingly decent.
My low point* of the whole flat earth thing is still the 1983 issue of Popular Hi-fi where it was stated that the Nakamichi TX-1000 sounds worse than a Rega Planar 2. I can promise you it doesn't. Funnily enough, the reviewer is not credited anywhere in the magazine, but to be Frank, it's not difficult to land on the name of the person involved.
*Although there was also the letter to one of the magazines where a chap was asking how to improve his Radio 3 reception and was basically told to stop listening to the radio and buy an LP12...
poco a poco
I'm Jim
Theo,Hi Jim
I also have a copy of that Berriman review! I remember hearing a Bespoke Audio system at a hifi show in the late '70s/early '80s (could have been Harrogate, possibly Last Drop Hotel, Bolton), and being utterly mesmerised by the L-07D/Albarry/Allison system. It sounded magnificent, and I came away knowing that I wanted an L-07D, but couldn't afford it.
I then succumbed to the hifi press at the time and bought an LP12 (it was then half the cost of the L-07D). The money spent on it over the years until I finally got off the bandwagon is chastening. After 27 years, I sold it to buy the very same L-07D from that show (sold to me by the guy from Bespoke). It got fettled and rebuilt, and has given me 10 years of trouble-free service since. Yes, it's had an additional arm and countless cartridge rebuilds, but the t/t itself is as it was 10 years ago. It sounds fantastic, without any of the paranoia of future upgrades. I expect it to see me out.
The press wasn't all biased: it pointed me towards Exposure amplification and a number of other items I had over the years (Micromega, Esoteric, Neat) which I have loved and cherished. I could never understand the love for Naim amplification though, and I borrowed enough of it in an attempt to convince myself. Ultimately, I realised that the press presents an opinion (biased or otherwise) which doesn't have to tally with my experience (or my ears). Having said that, reading some of the old equipment reviews from those days brings back fond memories of reviewers with strongly-held opinions
I first heard the L-07D at at one of the Heathrow HiFi shows in 1980 and was very impressed. I think Harman was the importer and used to demonstrate it with a Denon 103 cartridge. I had had an LP12 for sometime. Although my LP12 with Syrinx 2 arm and Kharma cartridge sounded very good when set up by my dealer (more than once) and working at its peak, but it continually drifted off and I could easily hear the change. I managed to get a copy of the full dealers setup instructions (that only they were supposed to be available to them) and I kept adjusting the suspension, but it always eventually drifted off again. It also took 3 replacement Khamas to get one that I thought tracked well enough. I think the best part was the arm that sounded much better than an Ittock.
My dealer then was the excellent Howard Popeck at Subjective Audio and he had the L-07D and the Oracle on demonstration (and was using the L-07D himself) as well as the LP12. For me they both crucified the LP12. Although the Oracle had a very slightly better and more detailed higher frequency range than the L-07D (especially with a Breuer 8 arm) I preferred the drive and better bass of the L-07D and it's overall build quality. All as described by Dave Berriman in the article. I blew my finances totally by buying one of the first Sagano Koetsu Rosewoods in the UK that I heard with both turntables and also was a real step up on anything I had heard before. The L-07D then was £1,100 and the Koetsu £500 the Oracle with the Sumiko arm was cheaper, but not by much with a Breuer 8 arm.
I contributed the scans of all the UK reviews and advertisements (including the Bespoke one "Common sense will prevail and the misleading comments voiced in another popular HiFi magazine will be seen for what they are!") of the L-07D including the Oracle comparison and the bit less favourable Martin Colloms review in the then (small booklet) HiFi Choice that can still be found on this page on the L-07D site: http://www.l-07d.com/literature.htm about half way down the page for those interested in 1980's reviews.
I think my L-07D should see me out as well provided there are no major problems.
Apologies for taking this thread a little bit off topic.
narabdela
who?
Ah...'common knowledge' aka 'received wisdom'. Passed down unthinkingly from generation to generation.
Dowser
Learning to bodge again..
I came to Hi-Fi from a different side - in the 80s I was a repair engineer (OK, technician ) for Laskys - I got listen to all their Hi-Fi stuff in the workshop (through my bench Nad 3130 and Mission 737-r system I soon ended up with at home too). Laskys wasn’t really high end, but I was also an avid reader of the Hi-Fi press back then, it always amazed me the difference between what I heard and what the reviewer wrote when one of their components was reviewed. I quickly learned there is no black and white, and everything was about synergy - especially between amp and loudspeaker back then (few high end turntables came in from Laskys back then…some, I remember a few Missions), nowadays also between cartridge and phone stage.
) for Laskys - I got listen to all their Hi-Fi stuff in the workshop (through my bench Nad 3130 and Mission 737-r system I soon ended up with at home too). Laskys wasn’t really high end, but I was also an avid reader of the Hi-Fi press back then, it always amazed me the difference between what I heard and what the reviewer wrote when one of their components was reviewed. I quickly learned there is no black and white, and everything was about synergy - especially between amp and loudspeaker back then (few high end turntables came in from Laskys back then…some, I remember a few Missions), nowadays also between cartridge and phone stage.
Tony L
Administrator
I remember the one in Liverpool having some pretty decent stuff, I certainly saw a pair of Quad ESLs in there. They often had stuff on huge discount, I remember buying an Ortofon M20FL cart and a pair of Leak 3000 Isodynamic headphones there for less than half price IIRC. My memory is foggy as there was also a fairly similar but smaller box-shifter called IIRC Ace Audio in Liverpool, where I bought a few bits early on.
There was an establishment: Quad, SME, Thorens, Gramophone and HiFi News. Some new guys came along, made some noise, shifted the paradigm and became the new establishment. However good Quad/SME/Thorens/ESL systems were for some kinds of music in some kinds of rooms, they were pretty poor at playing Dark Side of Moon enjoyably and so the Linn Naim massive had its day in the sun and built their sales on a million dems of “Money” and deservedly made some too. But then Linn and Naim went their own ways. Don’t think a particular kind of shallow technical reviewing had any more or less merit than the subjective spliff-fuelled gibberings of the small coterie that wrote for hifi magazines. Now it’s unboxing videos on YouTube. What next?
Robert
Tapehead
Jim Audiomisc
pfm Member
The point of the 'technical' reviews was that they allowed the reader to make sense of the results in a way that might apply to *their* preferences and situation. The 'cost' was that the reader needed a level of understanding. Early mags provided that as well, later ones ceased bothering.
The snag with the second extract above from what you wrote is the "can" which doesn't mean "will". If their situation or preferences or associate kit differ (inc the room) then it may simply mislead them.
But as interest in Hi-Fi grew, so more readers simply didn't want to have to understand the 'technical' side. Indeed, may well be irritated by even seeing it. Thus magazines gradually removed it. Leaving reviews which might be useful if your tastes and circumstances coincided with those of the reviewer. And if the reader didn't try *other* items the reviewer *didn't* like they'd have no real comparison.
Add in dealers that basically sold what 'everyone' came in asking for...
Jim Audiomisc
pfm Member
Re-boxing videos
Does that turn it into a boxing match? 8-]
Jim Audiomisc
pfm Member
I keep wishing someone could convince HFN to do a reprint book of articles from the early John Crabbe era. Its a goldmine of technical info, inc some remarkable DIY. I've suggested it, but the modern assumption is that readers aren't interested. Ditto for the old yearbooks.
Tony L
Administrator
The better magazines have both subjective reviews and objective product testing IMO, e.g. Stereophile. I can’t see the point of either alone.
PS I found reading an early selection of The Absolute Sound recently, issues from its first couple of years, quite fascinating. That was pretty much ground zero for subjective reviewing, and the quality of writing and technical knowledge was vastly in advance of the things we had in the UK. Really long reviews spanning many pages with barely any visual content and a lot of depth to them. I haven’t seen any recent issues of TAS, but it was seriously good when it started.
PS I found reading an early selection of The Absolute Sound recently, issues from its first couple of years, quite fascinating. That was pretty much ground zero for subjective reviewing, and the quality of writing and technical knowledge was vastly in advance of the things we had in the UK. Really long reviews spanning many pages with barely any visual content and a lot of depth to them. I haven’t seen any recent issues of TAS, but it was seriously good when it started.
narabdela
who?
Without wanting to cause offence, and with the greatest respect etc. etc...that is utter bo**ocks.
Good idea! Other magazines in other areas, model railroads and car magazines, are doing it online for the paying subscribers. Just hope they don't include the 100 or so pages of ads in every issue of HFN