MQA

[sunbeamgls]

See above. Trust your ears.

Yep, I do.

Still trying to get a clear demo that would convince me - master for master. Why is this so difficult?

It really seems odd to me that there is clear evidence in the video that the "magic blue light" tells lies but here you are, still defending the indefensible.

 

[nostromo]

This is a nightmare come true. We need that MQA flagger now.

Tidal sales must be seriously down... they seemed to have rushed to offer lossless without realising how fully embedded MQA is in their catalogue...so much so they may not have much lossless to offer. The MQA luster is loosing its shine and Tidal only have one egg in their basket.

Will Tidal survive this lossless war?

 

[DimitryZ]

Aah... OK, I was going to ask to borrow your little Project MQA DAC, but I think shipping to and fro to the UK would be too much hassle, besides currently my system is seriously offline... See here:
https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/linn-aktive-crossover-repair.254426/

Perhaps when I'm up and fully running, I'll ask again.

As an aside... Ordered some component from Penn Elcom for the repair and the courier Hermes have delivered to an unspecified neighbour, none of whom say they have it... Looks like £160 up in smoke too... Annoyed atm.

That's a bum deal.

I see a cool thing on PFM where people pass interesting bits around for auditions.

I will be happy to send the Project box into UK for that purpose. It's just gathering dust here.

 

[Rosewind]

I really wish Tidal well. They had no idea what MQA really was.

 

[DimitryZ]

Yep, I do.

Still trying to get a clear demo that would convince me - master for master. Why is this so difficult?

It really seems odd to me that there is clear evidence in the video that the "magic blue light" tells lies but here you are, still defending the indefensible.

2L files are very good for that purpose.

 

[DimitryZ]

I really wish Tidal well. They had no idea what MQA really was.

Of course. They are just simple people.

 

[Yank]

That's a bum deal.

I see a cool thing on PFM where people pass interesting bits around for auditions.

I will be happy to send the Project box into UK for that purpose. It's just gathering dust here.

Will it run on 240V/50Hz AC?

 

[DimitryZ]

Will it run on 240V/50Hz AC?

It will run from USB power in the source, but sounds better with a separate external 5v source. It has a micro-USB power connector and a full size USB B input. If there is power on the micro-USB it will switch to it, and away from source power. I will package a lower tier Audioquest USB cable with it. I also made a TRRS to RCA cable for it so you could run its output from the headphone jack (based on AQ Red River). I think I felt at the time that this unit wasn't stellar in terms of dynamics. I will put that cable with the little guy so folks can experiment. In fact, I will put a lot of different cables in the package...it would be great if folks just kept the ones they like.

I also have two Topping D30s that were from a clearly mistaken phase when I thought Google and Amazon should stream from their respective branded tablets (don't ask). If anyone finds these excellent small DACs useful, I will be happy to add them to the package. I so hated Google Music - it's the only streaming service I actually cancelled.

I used an LPS when I ran the Project unit. Others reported good results with a good size USB battery.

Project is nationality-agnostic

It's hard to give away free stuff around here.... suspicion abounds

Anyone wants to give me a UK address to ship to? There is no weirdness, I just want to get rid of stuff.

 

[DimitryZ]

Also, for those looking to screen an awesome Jazz-themed film, "Tuba to Cuba" is the bomb.

I can't wait to visit New Orleans!

 

[DimitryZ]

One small criticism of Melody Gardot's stylistic delivery, also true of Joss Stone and other singers in the "Blue Eyed Soul" music segment.

Their verbal delivery mimics Black accent and style. This is not needed - the music works regardless of the singer's accent. It would in fact be better all around, if white singers sang in their own voice. Diana Krall does and her music certainly doesn't suffer.

As an immigrant white (Russian) boy growing up in the Black ghetto, my early English accent was Black. I chose to eventually change it, because I came to a conclusion it was derivative and didn't represent my overall history.

But perhaps I did that to unconsciously take advantage of white privilege. Certainly, when I had my MIT interview, I chose not to sound Black. I guess I figured out stuff by then. The nice white lady alumni who interviewed me would not have liked it in 1981... probably.

Weirdly, I was robbed of my wallet at gun point on my way to the interview - on a subway platform.. This was my one and only time looking at a revolver pointed at me (I think a .38) - and realizing there were bullets in every chamber (I don't mean to say there were other times people pointed guns at me). Robber seemed spooked by the incoming train and so he didn't pull the trigger and kill me. After the MIT interview and a session with NYC police back home (unproductive - they wanted me to identify a suspect without offering protection to my family), the wallet was dropped off to my apartment building minus $10 cash in it.

Bottom line, life is strange. I am typing this because of the NYC train schedule and a decision by a man with a gun not to kill me. My experience is no different than thousands (Tens of thousands? Hundreds of Thousands?) Black Americans. Clearly, the system is f'uped up.

Obviously, not an MQA thing, *just* a life thing maybe more important....

 

[Pedro83]

As an immigrant white (Russian) boy growing up in the Black ghetto, my early English accent was Black. I chose to eventually change it, because I came to a conclusion it was derivative and didn't represent my overall history.

I believe the street term is "Wigga".

I have a DFR en route to Portugal that was loaned to a friend several years ago, the same DAC was used for MQA comparisons. I have a very good vinyl rip of Melody's latest album, haven't heard it on Tidal yet.

My rig is basic at most for the time being: Genelec 8040 in my office for near field listening. Not making any changes until my work picks up and a house move/relocation which is on hold due to Covid.

 

[Pedro83]

Anyone wants to give me a UK address to ship to? There is no weirdness, I just want to get rid of stuff.

If you want rid, look no further. As above, I reside in Portugal. RME DAC is on my radar when the time is right, would be interesting to hear a topping DAC.

 

[Jim Audiomisc]

Your first paragraph has confused me.

You play LPCM file first through an MQA DAC. Then you play MQA file through the same DAC. Or you can do it in reverse order.

The problem arises in what you take for granted. Consider the following:

For the sake of example I'll use buying files you download, but the same argument applies to streaming.

Someone sees that one of their favourite bands - Bob Zit and the Blacktops - has released a new song. So they get it from their supplier in two versions being offerred. File 'L' is a now-traditional 192k/24 LPCM file. File 'M' is an MQA file.

They have a setup that can play both types of file, and fully 'decode' MQA.

They may decide that one version sound 'better' than the other. Doesn't matter here, which one.

The problem arises if they ask themself: Was 'L' the data fed into the MQA encoder to produce 'M'? If it was, I can decide if I prefer to choose MQA, or I'd prefer to avoid it.

Snag is that AWUI MQA insist that people should NOT be allowed access to what went into the MQA encoder. So if the supplier adheres to this, 'L' *can't* be what was fed into the MQA encoder. That means L and M have differences that are not due to the actual MQA encoding-decoding cycle. So we can't fully assess any effects of MQA on LPCM. And any decision about 'liking' one version or the other may not be due to MQA itself but this insistence on preventing us from having what was fed into MQA meaning that L is different to that possible causing us form a preference.

In effect, we might have preferred what went into MQA encoding if we'd been given THAT instead of L.

We now have the reports that when people fetch 'L' type versions of material they actually get M. Which also tends to cloak what is happening and get in the way of a comparison deciding what changes the MQA encode-decode may make and how audible - for good or bad - they might be. Thus we lose the reference point for making choices.

 

[Jim Audiomisc]

The Speaker Bio neglects to mention that Lucy is HOT!

Possibly. And she may also be an excellent presenter, etc. I have no idea as I've not seen her work. However given that the info I saw said her education was in 'media and english' I am unsure how deep her knowledge may be of topics like the application of Information Theory to digitial audio. Either in principle, or via analysis / development / testing. The BBC 'Click' programme is largely about 'tech toys' and on that 'wow' level. Its not really a science or engineering programme, but is presented as being about 'tech'. So I'm curious about the level/type of questioning she may bring to the event that WotHiFi arranged.

 

[mansr]

However given that the info I saw said her education was in 'media and english' I am unsure how deep her knowledge may be of topics like the application of Information Theory to digitial audio.

I would assume close to zero, possibly negative.

 

[Jim Audiomisc]

More bad press for MQA and Tidal.

Just shows desperation by Tidal to offer Lossless at a competitive price. And some desperation to ditch MQA quickly. Qobuz will be laughing.

I tend to presume that their behaviour may perhaps be a result of MQA saying they can't let anyone access what went into MQA encoding, so unless they have another version that has been altered in other ways, have to send MQA regardless. Cleft stick.

 

[Jim Audiomisc]

I would assume close to zero, possibly negative.

That's what I suspect may be the case, but I don't want to be unfair because I know zip about her and her previous work.

 

[Jim Audiomisc]

The concern wrt material that has been though MQA and then subsequently altered, losing its official 'flagging' is that the effects of MQA will vary from case to case. So any detector that relies on detecting the 'usual signs' can't be 100% reliable. What I'm not yet sure about is how reliable it can be, and what the best tack may be. The obvious targets are:

1) The anharmonics adde by MQA passage.

2) The 'hole' effect around the folded Nyquist.

Thus far my feeling is that (1) could be detected by doing FFTs, and comparing them with their 'frequency flipped' results, correlating against an offset. That may make finding patterns of offset anharmonics easier as it can maximise the SNR of the search. May also be useful to differentiate the sample series first to 'pre whiten' a bit. But I'd need to play with this, so takes time. Hence if anyone else also wants to have a go, I'd be happy to be beaten to it!

As it is, I've just got to doing 'diffs' to check when two files are identical, and examining any residual, and with using a series of FFTs to spot patterns vid display. So just poking the ideas about

That said, a plain detector is already available, but uses the flagging to ID. So I'm just wondering about writing a simpler version of that for my own interest. IIUC the flagging is something like an N-bit repeat pattern in the 16th bit, covered by being XORd between the two channels with added noise. Is that correct?

 

[Tony L]

Snag is that AWUI MQA insist that people should NOT be allowed access to what went into the MQA encoder. So if the supplier adheres to this, 'L' *can't* be what was fed into the MQA encoder. That means L and M have differences that are not due to the actual MQA encoding-decoding cycle. So we can't fully assess any effects of MQA on LPCM. And any decision about 'liking' one version or the other may not be due to MQA itself but this insistence on preventing us from having what was fed into MQA meaning that L is different to that possible causing us form a preference.

In effect, we might have preferred what went into MQA encoding if we'd been given THAT instead of L.

This, along with the corporate politics and control, is clearly the problem.

The more I look into MQA the more convinced it is, at best, a flawed solution to a non-existent problem (bandwidth). One that is sold/hyped in a way that can very deliberately not be assessed outside the world of those marketing and selling it. My hope is Tidal are getting cold feet as they start to lose share to their genuinely lossless competitors. Once they are done with it it MQA will rightly join Betamax, Elcassette, DAT, DCC and MiniDisc in the long list of obsolete media, though at the bottom of that pile as all their claims could be fairly assessed and verified.

PS If I had to put a fiver on the table right now my bet would be that the Compact Cassette will outlive MCA! That at least holds some nostalgia value.

 

[mansr]

IIUC the flagging is something like an N-bit repeat pattern in the 16th bit, covered by being XORd between the two channels with added noise. Is that correct?

The xor of the 16th bit (usually, other positions are occasionally used) from each channel forms a bitstream with a packet structure. Each packet begins with a type code and ends with a 4-bit checksum. To avoid false matches, one of the packet types includes a fixed 36-bit code. The format is partially documented here: https://code.videolan.org/mansr/mqa/-/blob/master/mqa.rst