notevenclose
pfm Member
Not that contentious. I don't know anyone who thinks burnt-in beans taste better.
Plus it takes longer to scrape the bits off the bottom of the pan.
Audio/Digital Cables
- Thread starter Linnovice
- Start date
Not that contentious. I don't know anyone who thinks burnt-in beans taste better.
Plus it takes longer to scrape the bits off the bottom of the pan.
H20GNA
pfm Member
notevenclose
pfm Member
Anything which requires 'burn-in' must surely reach a point where said process is complete and it is then 'burnt-in?'
Arkless Electronics
Trade: Amp design and repairs.
No they won't!
Gervais Cote
Predator
This cable is indeed the best sound quality/price ratio you can find and good enough to listen and enjoy music........rather than looking at a fancy cable with oversized jacket and NASA design connectors !
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I have been unable to hear significant differences between digital coaxial and optical cables to justify paying more than for a correct properly made e.g. midlevel one (with a slight preference for coaxial overall). When I say this I mean comparisons between anything from a decent £15-30 optical or coaxial to many from various brands up to Chord Signature TA at £800 (and gave up). However very different experience with USB cables where I’ve found significant sound differences e.g. comparing cheaper or more expensive AQ, Nordost or Chord - quite different character and easy to justify spending more depending on budget, system and preference.
(btw ethernet cables have also been surprisingly different for me and worth choosing carefully.)
(btw ethernet cables have also been surprisingly different for me and worth choosing carefully.)
John Phillips
pfm Member
I hope the OP has a good enough answer. I think we continue to see at least two opposed audiophile philosophies. For the avoidance of doubt, in both I see "enjoy the music" as common. But as for differences I see:
- the audiophile who likes tweaking, who believes that an audible difference between digital cables is a good thing to be exploited; and
- the audiophile who likes engineering, who believes that an audible difference between digital cables is a bad thing to be eliminated.
simon g
Older, wiser but no longer retired
Yet another waste of everyone's time. Another cable thread with exactly the same responses (with the same old trying to be amusing/clever/smug comments) as the previous 5,879. Nothing new, never will be. I must stop clicking on them in the vain hope of reading something informative; it'll never happen.
Do you mean actual audible variations resulting from faults in the cable which should be fixed or the belief in audible variations which should be discouraged?
John Phillips
pfm Member
The former. But the identification of actual imperfections in a system is not always easy. So actual differences when cables are swapped are not necessarily attributable to the cable.
On differences people perceive for unidentifiable reasons, that's normal for humans so there is nothing to be fixed. My hearing as I perceive it varies with mood, recent listening history and probably many other things. It's an integral element of the hobby.
mindlagoon
pfm Member
My analogy was specifically aimed at cables for digital interfaces and I should've used Alphabetti Spaghetti instead of beans, and opened the can to count the letters before and after the trip. My point is this: you would end up with exactly the same set of letters so you wouldn't be able to distinguish which bag they had travelled in.
But that doesn't matter. Most users have no way of knowing the vagaries in different pieces of equipment so trial and error cable swapping is the only way to find out what suits.
I'm inclined to agree that it should be possible to design a digital cable which delivers perfect performance, and I don't see why such a cable should cost four-grand! I remain open minded for now though as I have to concede that there may be things going on in digital music transmission that we don't yet understand. I recently fitted a small Mana platform under my CD player, which is only functioning as a transport, and it improved the sound. I don't know how that can be possible, it makes no sense to me and I wasn't expecting it to work.
My experience of coax cables is the the differences were pretty small and I find it hard to believe that spending thousands on one could result in a much bigger improvement. Never tried a mega-cable though so who knows.
You should go and read up on how digital transmission systems work as it's not as simple as many people think it is. There are known issues which can result in the variations heard. You can't actually transmit a number down a cable.
Jim Audiomisc
pfm Member
Having actually worked on 'digital transmission systems' I'd agree with your first statement. And with your second, vague and sweeping as it is. Your final one needs context. As it stands it could mean that no digital link can work and any destination it feeds must get no information at all. And that no computers, etc, can work.
Yes, what I'm alluding to is that many people have a perception that digital means numbers and is therefor immune to error, as the numbers at one end will be identical to the numbers at the other.
What they are not considering is that you can't actually send a number down a cable. It has to be transformed or coded into and electrical signal, which is effectively a wave form and is therefore subject to possible distortions during transmission. Or during encoding/decoding.
mindlagoon
pfm Member
I know how digital transmission systems work, believe me. As I'm sure you know, uncorrected bit errors over a channel or transmission line impact the analogue waveform coming out of the DAC in entirely different ways to frequency, phase and amplitude perturbations of an analogue signal. It's like comparing apples and tractors. Bit errors cause drop outs and glitches. Error-free transmission over a 1 metre cable does not require a £500 cable. But if you like the look of it, knock yourself out.
This may not be very good advice, I am afraid. It is almost a guarantee for finding false differences when there are actually none.
What are those technical reasons? How have they been demonstrated to cause audible differences?
tuga
Legal Alien
There's a theory that S/PDIF coax should be at least 1.5m long.
I would not waste £150 on a couple of cables when your DAC is only worth twice that amount (in fact I wouldn't waste £150 in all cables of my system anyway regardless of the system's price).
I am using one of these as a USB cable between endpoint computer and DAC:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01BV2VRK2/?tag=pinkfishmedia-21
I am no longer using a coax but this is the one I've bought:
https://www.thomann.de/gb/cordial_cpds3_cc.htm
Total price: just under £20
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