Colin Barron
pfm Member
Both the EU and the Russians are certainly using factory ships, but the reporting was not in Guardian so we cannot be certain.
Brexit: give me a positive effect... VII
- Thread starter Brian
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Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
What to trust? (a) A right-leaning, Youtube channel that doesn't bother to tell us anything about them or their purpose or (b) A newspaper, with known ownership and editorial 'agenda' and 200 years of publishing?
Unless you could find another source that is a little bit more, you know, reliable, that corroborates it (*), I can be absolutely certain; the story is just a load of anti-EU b*llshit with no purpose other than to stir the s**t as we get too close to avoiding no-deal.
(*) - I know, it means having to look beyond your own leaver comfort zone but go on, give it a go - you might find it quite liberating.
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
What makes you think I’m happy about it? When I vote I have in mind the hope of doing something about it.
Colin Barron
pfm Member
An effective opposition to challenge the government of the day is important. Even if they all were all on pulling together which they are not, 199 is not so good.
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
I’m sure a you can work these things out for yourself, Col.
Colin Barron
pfm Member
Apologies i was pulling your leg.
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
omg. Another big guy has arrived on the scene. Great thing, the internet, eh...
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
Leaving aside, for the moment, the problem that the Labour Party can't get all its own MPs to vote the same way, it has long been the case that an opposition may be constructed of a loose coalition of parties with common cause.
Even if you added the 41 SNP MPs to Labour's tally, they'd still be in opposition and unable to overturn the Tory vote without a fair few Tory rebels.
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
Funny how when you’re lost you resort to insult. You’re not alone, it’s a regular hard remainer behaviour that has dominated the forum since 2016.
Anyway, by how you voted ( more than once ) you helped enable the tories to a majority, you helped enable brexit for your nationalism.
tonerei
pfm Member
That's how it operates in most countries. PR is obviously required which has been stated many times. But in this case the simple fact that the arithmetic doesn't add up is blithely ignored. As Hugh gleefully posts 45 days to go and the ramble about the SNP snookering Labour is still the 'hot' topic!
Unless you dropped in from Mars in the last day the Labour party were clearly divided on Brexit. SNP and Liberals were the only game in town for remain. Enough Labour voters switched to the Tory party to get Brexit done. Simple as.
Let's focus on the real game being played out. Is Bojo gleefully going into hiding to take a 'well earned' rest? Will the wimps capitulate at the last minute? Are we in for a fudge or will the Tory gladiators boldly go for no deal
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
I'm increasingly of the opinion that the 'Boris is self-isolating' stuff is just another smokescreen. Firstly, the MP who apparently tested positive has a wife who is being shielded, which means, I would assume, said MP has been ultra-careful all along. This should, surely, reduce the likelihood that he'd test positive. I know, probability vs reality and all that, but there's a whiff of improbability about this scenario.
Secondly, many of us have been working perfectly effectively from home, for months. I'm quite sure the core Prime Ministerial duties can be fulfilled by a combination of Teams/Zoom meetings, notes under the door, and shouting through closed doorways. And yet, our PM seems mostly invisible. It's just another walk-in fridge, innit.
Secondly, many of us have been working perfectly effectively from home, for months. I'm quite sure the core Prime Ministerial duties can be fulfilled by a combination of Teams/Zoom meetings, notes under the door, and shouting through closed doorways. And yet, our PM seems mostly invisible. It's just another walk-in fridge, innit.
Colin Barron
pfm Member
Forget the smoke and mirrors, he (or she in this case) who pays the piper calls the tune.That's how it operates in most countries. PR is obviously required which has been stated many times. But in this case the simple fact that the arithmetic doesn't add up is blithely ignored. As Hugh gleefully posts 45 days to go and the ramble about the SNP snookering Labour is still the 'hot' topic!
Unless you dropped in from Mars in the last day the Labour party were clearly divided on Brexit. SNP and Liberals were the only game in town for remain. Enough Labour voters switched to the Tory party to get Brexit done. Simple as.
Let's focus on the real game being played out. Is Bojo gleefully going into hiding to take a 'well earned' rest? Will the wimps capitulate at the last minute? Are we in for a fudge or will the Tory gladiators boldly go for no deal
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
I'm confused, Colin. Presumably, this is a reference to Angela Merkel. What you seem to be saying is that Germany calls the shots in the EU, and thus was never going to do a deal which wasn't in its own interests? Please correct me if I've misunderstood.
So, it follows that you're arguing that the UK was never going to make a good deal with the EU, unless that was also in Germany's interests. But you, and others, have long maintained that a) the prospect of a better deal for the UK was a key reason for Brexit in the first place, and b) this was pretty much a given. How can that be the case, as your stance on Germany's power in the EU is at least as old as your stance on the prospects of a UK deal?
farfromthesun
pfm Member
Police warn of "Major Operational Impact":
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...icing-crime-terrorism-databases-b1724216.html
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...icing-crime-terrorism-databases-b1724216.html
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
Yup, this has been a major concern since Brexit became a thing in 2016. There are various key databases (Schengen II, ECRIS, Eurodac being the main ones), plus Europol, the data exchanges under the Prum Treaty, the advance passenger information from air carriers, and no doubt others, that are all vital for the smooth and efficient running of cross-border law enforcement, national security, and the like. A fair amount of the workarounds will involve requests routed through Interpol, or via intermediaries into Europol. All way, way slower than direct access privileges, and all no doubt subject to more restrictions on the basis for requesting access than hitherto. Ironic, really, as the UK has always been a mainstay of Europol and, until recently, its chair was a Brit.
Colin L
High-tech low-life
So, no answer then.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
AFAICT Brian's point is that the Tory enablement predates the referendum, and the thread of culpability he's going on about extends back to the Tory win in 2010. It might even extend back as far as 1979 and the introduction of Thatcherism, though, for all I know.
He has a point, of sorts, though I think it's a bit weak. Parties wax, and wane, and the 2010 vote was on the back of the 2008 crash, and I doubt many voters gave the possibility of a Brexit referendum a moment's thought when deciding who to vote for in 2010. It's certainly a bit of a stretch to argue that, if you voted LibDem in 2010 (as, for example, I did), you are as culpable for Brexit as if you'd voted Tory, or any other party that wasn't Labour (SNP included).
He's got more of a case in 2015, when the Brexit referendum was a campaign issue, but I'm still far from convinced because, IIRC, Labour didn't have much to say on the matter in that campaign. You can argue that as the result was close, more support for Labour could have got the Tories out in 2015, so LibDems and SNP could have tipped the balance. I'm far from convinced on the SNP argument, as Labour support had tanked by then already, and SNP are not exactly pally with the Tories anyway so would still function as part of the opposition.
Jamie
pfm Member
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54972671
Makes you think.....we could 'club togther', with other nearby like-minded countries and have a process by which people in said like minded counties could come & go, wherever they wanted / needed work?
Makes you think.....we could 'club togther', with other nearby like-minded countries and have a process by which people in said like minded counties could come & go, wherever they wanted / needed work?
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
What the internet has permitted is the aggressive assertion of ignorance, in your case with depressing regularity. We see it graphically in America with their Trump brand of Brexit-style exceptionalism. Any facts can apparently be neutralised with alternative facts- in your case elementary arithmetic difficulties. Its as if you repeat this stuff often enough it’ll come true.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Some of the Tory parliamentary party are anti-mask, anti-lockdown zealots, particularly the new intake of Brexit ultras and remember Johnson’s brazen “I’m going to keep shaking hands with everyone” undermining of his own CMO’s advice, stood next to him at the public briefing. The fish rots from the head.
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