One of the reasons I ditched the turntable is I can't switch tracks or albums with a press of a button. I rarely listen to a full album as I don't listen to songs that I don't enjoy listening to when I'm in the mood. Also, I don't derive much joy in handling vinyl as others here do.
Dac/streamer - not as involving as vinyl
- Thread starter The Bish
- Start date
Colin L
High-tech low-life
Virtually all digital here, all local files. I retain an RP8 and all my vinyl but seldom use it. SQ from the digital rig is better than my vinyl even with previous TT, a SME 20/3.
One of the few downsides of CD is it’s length. LP’s up to c. 23 mins were perfect for listening and the releases were more concise and better curated. CD’s at nearly 70 mins are too long, and most have some flat-spots/filler, hence the “don’t play it all” comments.
One of the few downsides of CD is it’s length. LP’s up to c. 23 mins were perfect for listening and the releases were more concise and better curated. CD’s at nearly 70 mins are too long, and most have some flat-spots/filler, hence the “don’t play it all” comments.
Think you need to go back to school!
I understand where you guys are coming from on this but if you get digital right there really isn't any difference.
The reason vinyl makes you listen to whole albums is that it draws you in. It makes you forget about the machine and connect with the artists but this is not exclusively the domain of the turntable. Digital can do this too. Ok, there are more turntables that do it and fewer digital front ends but both can be just as good at it.
You can't just brush all turntables as good, all digital is bad. It's just not true.
And there is also the fact that you tend to play albums you like all the way though as you can't be bothered getting up to skip tracks ;0)
I reckon I could live without my TT, never thought I’d ever say that. The worry about surface noise, pressing quality etc just gets in the way of music.
The best way to listen to vinyl is sparingly, an occasional treat, a reminder of old times. Most of my current or recently discovered music is on CD.
The best way to listen to vinyl is sparingly, an occasional treat, a reminder of old times. Most of my current or recently discovered music is on CD.
Chris81
pfm Member
Heckyman
pfm Member
Regarding the physical aspects of involvement, a vinyl-only friend recently asked me "what albums did you get lately"? At this point I realised I don't "get" albums anymore. Most of the time I don't even bother adding them to a playlist.
I did feel a tinge of regret at not having given a particular release as much attention as I would have done in the past. With streaming, there is no physical or financial commitment. Buying CDs or downloads is very hard to justify when the stream sounds just as good. Moreover, neither CDs or files are like a vinyl release — an object of art in its own right.
Massive respect to you folks with TTs and vinyl collections...if I'd hung on to more of my record collection years ago (and/or not moved on from some of the bands I used to like) I might been tempted to go the other way. Not for the sound quality but for the overall experience.
That all said, streaming has its own pros. I've always been more of a radio listener than a record collector and streaming fits the bill perfectly.
I did feel a tinge of regret at not having given a particular release as much attention as I would have done in the past. With streaming, there is no physical or financial commitment. Buying CDs or downloads is very hard to justify when the stream sounds just as good. Moreover, neither CDs or files are like a vinyl release — an object of art in its own right.
Massive respect to you folks with TTs and vinyl collections...if I'd hung on to more of my record collection years ago (and/or not moved on from some of the bands I used to like) I might been tempted to go the other way. Not for the sound quality but for the overall experience.
That all said, streaming has its own pros. I've always been more of a radio listener than a record collector and streaming fits the bill perfectly.
Del monaco
Del Monaco
I listen to what I feel like listening to on the day. I might fancy vinyl, tuner or perhaps streaming. It don’t specifically go to a particular source because I feel it is the best. It varies. The fm tuner and vinyl generally present a particular sound. In many cases, it’s warm with a luxuriant bloom. It’s a very enveloping comforting sound. Very alluring as I stated before. And I like the interaction with the Lps and the tuning knob. I tend to listen to the fm tuner more than I listen to streamed radio. I like Radio 3 and Record Review particularly. I also enjoy the LMS IPlayer Extras plug in for catch up. With these sources I have to listen to what is pre programmed.I cant change the content or order of what I listen to so I have to take the quality with the fillers. There are few albums that I can listen to all the way through.This is where digital excels. The sound quality is generally good especially cd quality streams and I can use playlists to customise the experience and therefore maximise my enjoyment.
In my world digital and vinyl have their place. I am a recent convert to streaming and like it. My cd collection is now on an Innuos Zen, so everything can be selected from the comfort of my armchair, except of course for vinyl.
Given that I grew up listening to hard and prog rock in the 70's, this genre represents 90 percent of my vinyl collection. I have made every effort to discover remasters of these albums on CD, for convenience sake, but the effort pretty much always disappoints, so my TT is not going anywhere.
As mentioned earlier, CD can get a bad rap due to albums being poorly mastered. CD can sound great, but the so called 'Loudness war's has reduced so many rock releases to mush and are pretty much unlistenable.
I am probably old school, but it is very rare that I would not listen to an album from start to finish. After all in all likelihood, the artist has put much thought into the sequence of material on the recording and how that might impact in the listening experience.
Here is an interesting take on why vinyl is often preferred over digital.
Given that I grew up listening to hard and prog rock in the 70's, this genre represents 90 percent of my vinyl collection. I have made every effort to discover remasters of these albums on CD, for convenience sake, but the effort pretty much always disappoints, so my TT is not going anywhere.
As mentioned earlier, CD can get a bad rap due to albums being poorly mastered. CD can sound great, but the so called 'Loudness war's has reduced so many rock releases to mush and are pretty much unlistenable.
I am probably old school, but it is very rare that I would not listen to an album from start to finish. After all in all likelihood, the artist has put much thought into the sequence of material on the recording and how that might impact in the listening experience.
Here is an interesting take on why vinyl is often preferred over digital.
saturn9
pfm Member
Yep, this pretty much sums it up for me.
Tony L
Administrator
That’s an interesting point and highlights some of this as being cultural. I’ve never had much/any interest in singles unless a particular song didn’t exist on the album (e.g. Joy Division), never been interested in ‘greatest hits’ compilations, ‘favourite overtures’ type things and radio tends to just irritate me. The exception being John Peel who, prior to the internet opening up the music world so spectacularly, was a key way to hear things I’d not have heard before, which I then bought the album.
These days much of my listening is jazz, both vintage and what is happening right now. In all cases this is an ‘album’ form, the whole thing is considered as a whole from the playlist of tracks, the cover art, the writing on the sleeve etc. It is a coherent artistic whole and the astonishing all round quality established with Blue Note, Verve, Impulse etc carries on to this day with the modern jazz scene, so much of which produces truly beautiful physical product. I can’t imagine not listening to say the new Nubya Garcia or Binker Golding other than as an album, and that they make limited edition or signed copies available makes it all the more special.
Streaming for me is just the equivalent of John Peel, just a means of investigating before committing to a purchase. I just use YouTube, my TV runs through a nice system so plenty good enough to explore new things in decent quality. I’m certainly delighted streaming exists, it comes as a huge relief that no matter what cards ageing may deal me in the future I can (assuming my brain still works) access the world of music I love with nothing more than an iPad and a pair of headphones in a care home or whatever. For someone as utterly obsessed with music as I am that is a heck of a relief!
clivem2
pfm Member
I use Qobuz and local files for about half my listening. I confess I find it hard not skip around with streaming and files. The other half of my listening is vinyl - whole albums with the occasional 12” single. It’s vinyl that’s much more satisfying, I put this down to various reasons with only a minor aspect being the intrinsic sound of the medium. I put it down to the process of cleaning, handling and playing records. Also, much of what I listen to on vinyl is pre-digital - recorded much more simply with bands all in the studio together with more musical interplay than is the case with today’s recordings featuring initially impressive and processed sound. I even often prefer mono as it’s closer to reality for me but that’s a separate topic.
Heckyman
pfm Member
I wonder if anyone has compared vinyl and digital masterings on such new jazz (i.e. not mainstream pop / easy listening)? Both those albums sound great to me streamed. I hear a lot of talk about compression among audiophiles but I've not heard much evidence of it with my own ears and the music I listen to. The main thing I've noticed is that some 70's/80's/90's digital releases have a thin, flat, occasionally harsh sound. Contemporary releases (and some remasters of those older thin sounding CDs) seem much better.
I do feel that buying the record is still the "right" approach both in terms of appreciating the art and supporting the artist.
But I just can't seem to stop myself investigating and start committing (££££'s and physical space)...
...already spent more than enough on streamers, DACs and the whole caboodle in order to get an "involving" digital system ;-)
wylton
Naim and Mana member
I have been cleaning all my records and recently reached the landmark of having cleaned all the 12" stuff i.e. LPs and 12 singles. So, what's left now is the 7" singles; I haven't bought many, but over the years have been given quite a lot, to the point where I have over a thousand of them. It's all catalogued on the database, but the collection is a bit of a mystery, as I can't remember where most of it came from, but there’s some crackin’ good stuff in there! I didn't think that I would ever get around to cleaning them, but now I have time on my hands, I've decided to do so and it's been quite fun tbh! Each one is re-bagged into a Tonar Nostat 7” inner sleeve after cleaning
The collector side of me comes to the fore now, trying to match up the 7" to the correct sleeve and it's a real labour of love. It's the complete antithesis of streaming, having to get up every three minutes to turn the record over!
It’s a source of some regret, that during those heady Peel days of the mid to late 70’s, that I was an LP12 owner and couldn’t play 45’s! So I missed out on a load of good music.
I think, for me, this is what vinyl is all about; the physical product that you can hold in your hands. I have a Stanton ST.150 direct drive that I modified to take a Rega arm and I fitted a Rega Carbon cartridge, which is absolutely ideal to play 7” singles and I have it connected to a Rega mini-phono mm stage
So, for me, this is the bit that streaming can’t do. No doubt, most of the 7” singles I have are available for streaming at a higher fidelity and improved convenience, but that’s not the point!
The collector side of me comes to the fore now, trying to match up the 7" to the correct sleeve and it's a real labour of love. It's the complete antithesis of streaming, having to get up every three minutes to turn the record over!
It’s a source of some regret, that during those heady Peel days of the mid to late 70’s, that I was an LP12 owner and couldn’t play 45’s! So I missed out on a load of good music.
I think, for me, this is what vinyl is all about; the physical product that you can hold in your hands. I have a Stanton ST.150 direct drive that I modified to take a Rega arm and I fitted a Rega Carbon cartridge, which is absolutely ideal to play 7” singles and I have it connected to a Rega mini-phono mm stage
So, for me, this is the bit that streaming can’t do. No doubt, most of the 7” singles I have are available for streaming at a higher fidelity and improved convenience, but that’s not the point!
Tony L
Administrator
Most modern jazz recordings are superb regardless of format. I’ve been disappointed with some, e.g. Kamasi Washington’s astonishing albums, some of the best of this decade IMO, do suffer from modern mastering and sound compressed, which is such a shame as the music is so good. I felt the same with a GoGo Penguin album on Blue Note, both on CD, no idea how the vinyl compares, though I suspect the KW isn’t that good as its split over too few slabs of vinyl for the playing time. On the whole the quality is very good though, sometimes exceptional e.g. anything on Gearbox (e.g. Binker Golding) is proper full-analogue tape to vinyl cut and the Gary Bartz & Maisha album is a direct cut in the old 1970s audiophile style (i.e. played live to the cutting lathe). There is a lot of exceptionally good stuff around, and it is definitely worth the asking price.
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Heckyman
pfm Member
I do actually have 2 of the Kamasi CDs...now you mention it perhaps they do sound compressed. I'd always put it down to the fact that there's just so much going on in them besides Kamasi there's 2 drummers, full on electric double bass, mad keyboard playing, 2 vocalists, background choirs...all just belting it out most of the time!
Tony L
Administrator
I’ve seen them do it live (Manchester) and it astonishes me how they managed to squash the sound of two of the best drummers I’ve seen in my life to the degree it appears on CD! They are a simply incredible live band. Kamasi quite the story teller too, he is very funny - most of them have known each other since they are kids so there is a lot of banter and humour to it too. I’d certainly welcome a good live album from them.
Heckyman
pfm Member
Last year? Sounds like we might have been at the same gig!
Each musician seemed to me like Hendrix re-incarnated, just incredibly talented and totally out there.