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Class A Amp

Gervais Cote said:
You may also consider these that are a close match with a more decent price :

Pioneer SA 9800 (the one with two transfos)...
Click to expand...
I don't think the SA-9800 is proper class-A, though it is supposedly non-switching. It runs cool.

The Pioneer M-22, on the other hand ... is fabulous. But will need a good fettle and checking over, if the OP can find one in the first place.
 
I've been itching to try Class A too with a similar budget...

After researching I came the conclusion that full on Class A was a bit too pricey and concerns about the heat they pump out too so I went slightly left field. First looking at Class G where I found...

1. Arcam Class G. Older models A29 (~£350 used) A39 (~$500 used) / Newer model SA20 (£1,000) - They all output the first 20w as Class A. None of the heat/size issues. Reviews generally positive "warm smooth sound". Though one or two reviews found them "a bit dull".

2. Creek Audio 100a (~£1,000) Similar Class G to Arcam, outputting 25w as Class A. Has all the positives of warm/smooth Arcam sound but reviews state "more clarity, details and dynamic" vs the Arcams. Not seen a single bad review on it (note: the 50a is NOT class G, it's class A/B) Almost pulled the trigger on this (there's a second hand one on Ebay and the owner was ready to accept £975 for it). In the end though...

3. Schiit Aegir (£800 I found a used one on ebay for £550 which I just snapped up and I'm waiting on) Touted as "continuity class A" which I've no idea what that means but it basically seems to work more or less like class A but without the heat/size issues. Outputs 20w into 8ohms / 40w into 4ohm but can drive speakers like LS50 ok apparently (measured 83db sensitivity). My speakers are 89db so should be no problems there. And should you end up needing more power then can go monoblocks. Not seen a single bad review and everything points to having that class A sound. The Stereophile and Stereotimes reviews sold me.

One day I'd like to try a fully fledged bastard of a class A based system for now the Aegir hopefully gives me a very good taste without my room becoming a sauna or skinting myself out.
 
James said:
I don't think the SA-9800 is proper class-A, though it is supposedly non-switching. It runs cool.

The Pioneer M-22, on the other hand ... is fabulous. But will need a good fettle and checking over, if the OP can find one in the first place.
Click to expand...

I considered the M-22 too especially after watching this...


But in the end decided I didn't fancy the hassle of vintage gear (funnily enough that guy who reviewed it, his M-22 crapped out just a couple weeks after that review)
 
Columbo said:
I've been itching to try Class A too with a similar budget...

After researching I came the conclusion that full on Class A was a bit too pricey and concerns about the heat they pump out too so I went slightly left field. First looking at Class G where I found...

1. Arcam Class G. Older models A29 (~£350 used) A39 (~$500 used) / Newer model SA20 (£1,000) - They all output the first 20w as Class A. None of the heat/size issues. Reviews generally positive "warm smooth sound". Though one or two reviews found them "a bit dull".

2. Creek Audio 100a (~£1,000) Similar Class G to Arcam, outputting 25w as Class A. Has all the positives of warm/smooth Arcam sound but reviews state "more clarity, details and dynamic" vs the Arcams. Not seen a single bad review on it (note: the 50a is NOT class G, it's class A/B) Almost pulled the trigger on this (there's a second hand one on Ebay and the owner was ready to accept £975 for it). In the end though...

3. Schiit Aegir (£800 I found a used one on ebay for £550 which I just snapped up and I'm waiting on) Touted as "continuity class A" which I've no idea what that means but it basically seems to work more or less like class A but without the heat/size issues. Outputs 20w into 8ohms / 40w into 4ohm but can drive speakers like LS50 ok apparently (measured 83db sensitivity). My speakers are 89db so should be no problems there. And should you end up needing more power then can go monoblocks. Not seen a single bad review and everything points to having that class A sound. The Stereophile and Stereotimes reviews sold me.

One day I'd like to try a fully fledged bastard of a class A based system for now the Aegir hopefully gives me a very good taste without my room becoming a sauna or skinting myself out.
Click to expand...

I have no idea whether my arcam a85 is class A but i do know it sounds quite good , having had an enormous amount of amps with my taus it is doing ok at the moment [ till the next itch comes along . it cost under 300 quid, great remote, warm but has bit , great soundstage . total bargain really . as you say money is not very flowing at moment so i am battening down the hatches . in the meantime you could try any of the arcam amps . i don`t find them dull at all . very compelling in fact
 
Marantz PM4 is a really nice older Class A amp, with the added option of switching to ab for when you're just using it as background music and/or concerned about heat or electricity consumption (though it sounds much better in Class A mode).
 
James said:
I don't think the SA-9800 is proper class-A, though it is supposedly non-switching. It runs cool.

The Pioneer M-22, on the other hand ... is fabulous. But will need a good fettle and checking over, if the OP can find one in the first place.
Click to expand...
He was giving me suggestions, not the OP. I was talking about restoring an old Sansui if I sell my class A project. I wouldn't want another class A design due to the heat it generates. Valencia is already hot enough!
 
What about the Yamaha CA-1000 or CA-1010, both of which you can use in either class A or class B via a switch on the front. IIRC the CA-1000 puts out 15wpc in class A mode & 70wpc in class B, the CA-1010 25wpc class A & 100wpc class B. The CA-1000 has a warmer more vintage sound than the CA-1010 which has a more modern hifi sound to it (+VU meters which of course make it sound even better).. Both superb amps & you should be able to buy one & get it serviced for well within your £1200 budget.
TS
 
No matter the comments, specs, graphics, energy consumption and being non environment friendly, nothing beats a real pure class A for listening pleasure over long periods of time.
The best compromise for me is a decent class A/B that sounds good enough for me but can generate more power.
Never been impressed by the other/new technologies so far.
 
Gervais Cote said:
No matter the comments, specs, graphics, energy consumption and being non environment friendly, nothing beats a real pure class A for listening pleasure over long periods of time.
The best compromise for me is a decent class A/B that sounds good enough for me but can generate more power.
Never been impressed by the other/new technologies so far.
Click to expand...
I had been driving speakers with a pre-power and multiple amps for years. Now I have large sensitive speaker driven by a 10 Watt class A amp with Valve pre-amp all integrated. Never fails to make music sound so good.
 
Arkless Electronics said:
Other than the Pioneer M-22 none of the units mentioned above are class A in any way.
Click to expand...

Yup. Just some "left field" options that I'd been exploring after mulling over the class A route, that the OP may (or may not) want to consider given the price range.

"in any way" is interesting... you wouldn't define the Aegir "in any way" class A? (I'm not bothered if or if it isn't, if it lives up to review hype I'll be happy; just more curious than anything)
 
Columbo said:
Yup. Just some "left field" options that I'd been exploring after mulling over the class A route, that the OP may (or may not) want to consider given the price range.

"in any way" is interesting... you wouldn't define the Aegir "in any way" class A? (I'm not bothered if or if it isn't, if it lives up to review hype I'll be happy; just more curious than anything)
Click to expand...

Anything that does not get hotter than hell, put yer back out if you pick it up wrong and cost a packet is not real class A.
 
Columbo said:
I've been itching to try Class A too with a similar budget...

After researching I came the conclusion that full on Class A was a bit too pricey and concerns about the heat they pump out too so I went slightly left field. First looking at Class G where I found...

1. Arcam Class G. Older models A29 (~£350 used) A39 (~$500 used) / Newer model SA20 (£1,000) - They all output the first 20w as Class A. None of the heat/size issues. Reviews generally positive "warm smooth sound". Though one or two reviews found them "a bit dull".

2. Creek Audio 100a (~£1,000) Similar Class G to Arcam, outputting 25w as Class A. Has all the positives of warm/smooth Arcam sound but reviews state "more clarity, details and dynamic" vs the Arcams. Not seen a single bad review on it (note: the 50a is NOT class G, it's class A/B) Almost pulled the trigger on this (there's a second hand one on Ebay and the owner was ready to accept £975 for it). In the end though...

3. Schiit Aegir (£800 I found a used one on ebay for £550 which I just snapped up and I'm waiting on) Touted as "continuity class A" which I've no idea what that means but it basically seems to work more or less like class A but without the heat/size issues. Outputs 20w into 8ohms / 40w into 4ohm but can drive speakers like LS50 ok apparently (measured 83db sensitivity). My speakers are 89db so should be no problems there. And should you end up needing more power then can go monoblocks. Not seen a single bad review and everything points to having that class A sound. The Stereophile and Stereotimes reviews sold me.

One day I'd like to try a fully fledged bastard of a class A based system for now the Aegir hopefully gives me a very good taste without my room becoming a sauna or skinting myself out.
Click to expand...


I made my mind up to do it this time, or to die in the attempt. If it isn't guaranteed to scorch my fingers, I'm not going there.

Short list, so far :

1. a Sugden A21, either the current generation, or the one immediately before.

2. a Pass-clone, the Aleph 3 sounds very interesting

3. secondhand Krell, but taking on board Arkless's warning about refurbishment costs, this is probably over budget

4. a Marantz PM4

I refuse to consider anything valved. I'm adamant about that. Completely certain. Not to be deflected, though obviously I would prefer EL34 output devices .... unless I could afford SE triode.

Now for the tricky bit. Finding one.
 
neilmack said:
I made my mind up to do it this time, or to die in the attempt. If it isn't guaranteed to scorch my fingers, I'm not going there.

Short list, so far :

1. a Sugden A21, either the current generation, or the one immediately before.

2. a Pass-clone, the Aleph 3 sounds very interesting

3. secondhand Krell, but taking on board Arkless's warning about refurbishment costs, this is probably over budget...
Click to expand...
I used to own a Krell KSA-150. Sounded great. Weighed a TON! Unnecessarily heavy and difficult to deal with. Lots of heat, too.
Since I moved from the cool mainland USA to Hawaii, the Krell has been replaced. I use a Sony TA-A1ES, a hybrid class A amp which sounds *better* than the Krell, in my opinion. Much less expensive, much less heavy and a little less heat. I also use a Peachtree amp500 which is class D and it also sounds excellent, almost as good as the Krell, I’d say, for a lot less money, less weight, and much less heat.
Class A sounds great, but there are disadvantages and there are some pretty good alternatives, too.
 
neilmack said:
Which is the "one to have" the KSA50, mentioned above, or the KSA100?
Click to expand...


KSA 50 MK 1 is the one I have and I am very glad to have it. I haven't heard the KSA 100. The issue is made complicated by the fact that there's a KSA 50 Mk 2 -- I don't know about how they compare either technically or in the quality of the sound.
A friend of mine wrote me this at the time I was looking at buying it

Krell KSA50. 50 Watts Class A, 75 Watts Class A/B. Very simple
topology, easy to work on, built-in fan cooling, reliable.
Krell KSA100. 100 Watts Class A. Uncertain about Class A/B power, but
likely in excess of 150 Watts. Similar construction to the KSA50, so the
same comments apply.

If unmolested, both will almost certainly require new electros by now.
The KSA100 was a particularly impressive sounding thing.

. . .

seek out an old Krell (KSA100 would be my choice).
Parts and schematics are readily available for the old fan cooled
models. You'll find lots of people who have rebuilt them describe their
experiences on the net. Properly rebuilt, they are bullet-proof.
Personally, I would avoid the later, convection cooled models. Fan
cooled models are much better and the topology is less complicated.

. . .

Find an old Krell and rebuild it. MUCH better choice and offers real
Class A muscle. Even better, old Krells don't use MOSFETs and the really
old ones are fan cooled.
Click to expand...

If you do go the Krell route, four things to be concerned about are:

1. Fan noise. The original fan on mine used to click when it got hot and the only way to stop it was to thump the case. It turned out to be a well known Krell quirk. The problem goes away if you change the fan. It may not be an issue with the KSA 100 on offer (which has two fans), but it is worth checking. The fan on mine -- both the original and the modern replacement -- don't make any motor noise.

2. Transformer hum. I've learned to live with it. Like a purring pussy cat.

3. You need to have a good place to put it. It needs to have good ventilation. It's heavy, you won't want to move it around much!

4. Be prepared to pay reasonable money to have it serviced at some point, at least if it still has original electros.
 
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