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British Covid Response: View From Across the Pond

Seanm said:
How dare you! That is me.

The paedo comment stung though so I've found a more flattering picture. Hope 2ManyBoxes likes it!
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In my mind, I'd always seen you more like a John Astin-type. Can't imagine why...
 
Seanm said:
How dare you! That is me.

The paedo comment stung though so I've found a more flattering picture. Hope 2ManyBoxes likes it!
Click to expand...

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Nuttier than a nut bar made by the Nutty Nut Corporation of Nutsville, Tennessee but an improvement :)

Ever seen that Orson Welles film Touch Of Evil? That's the image I had in the back of my mind. Orson plays a nasty man indeed but not a paedophile.
 
Seanm said:
How dare you! That is me.

The paedo comment stung though so I've found a more flattering picture. Hope 2ManyBoxes likes it!
Click to expand...
Sean, I certainly don't always agree with you but I do respect your opinion and that particular post aimed at you is quite possibly the most vile one I've come across in my time on pfm. I admire your restraint in reply to it.
 
Seanm said:
It’s not really a question of compromise. There’s stuff you put up with in order not to have to tear up the life you’ve built, just as for those who were born here. Of course if things are bleak “back home” too then there’s a real dilemma.

Incidentally I was born here, and spent much of my childhood here. I was told to go home many times. It’s nearly 40 years since I’ve had that kind of language directed at me personally, but I’m hearing it now, from people on this forum: Mick P, Flatpopely, SteveT, a more genteel variation from Tim Jones. It really feels, personally, like I’m back in 1970s England - and the NF are in power. Everyday racists are undoubtedly being emboldened by Conservative policies and pronouncements. They’re turning England into a sh-thole.
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When have I ever directed a racist comment at you Sean, or advised you or anyone else here (in however genteel a way) to leave the country?

Of course, you have previously referred to me as a "racist c*nt" in the absence of any evidence or provocation whatsoever. It's a tool in your arsenal for when your verbal contortions run out of steam, and it's not a pretty picture.
 
Tim Jones said:
When have I ever directed a racist comment at you Sean, or advised you or anyone else here (in however genteel a way) to leave the country?

Of course, you have previously referred to me as a "racist c*nt" in the absence of any evidence or provocation whatsoever. It's a tool in your arsenal for when your verbal contortions run out of steam, and it's not a pretty picture.
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I think we’ve been due a Derek & Clive revival for some time now.
 
wyjsar said:
Sean, I certainly don't always agree with you but I do respect your opinion and that particular post aimed at you is quite possibly the most vile one I've come across in my time on pfm. I admire your restraint in reply to it.
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Well, it's playground stuff isn't it. I mean, so's "Why don't you leave the country", but that's coming from a darker place. Namely GB, 2020.

Also, have to admit, that's wasn't really a picture of me. I've put a real one in now.
 
Tim Jones said:
When have I ever directed a racist comment at you Sean, or advised you or anyone else here (in however genteel a way) to leave the country?

Of course, you have previously referred to me as a "racist c*nt" in the absence of any evidence or provocation whatsoever. It's a tool in your arsenal for when your verbal contortions run out of steam, and it's not a pretty picture.
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There was that time you told me and Max - for some reason, me and Max - that we'd never understand British liberal values. Well well well I thought. You'd been getting gammony for a while, and saying some unpleasant and personal stuff, but that was really getting something off your chest wasn't it.
 
It's times like this I'm glad I'm half-Scottish and a quarter Irish, because I only need to feel 25% as guilty as fully English people over whatever it is I'm supposed to feel guilty about. (Though, for a Catholic, I'm surprisingly guilt-free anyway).
 
It’s quite eye opening how a lot of ppl are revealing their racism. The masks are slipping everywhere, the coded messages are less coded now & outright alt-right dog whistling is going out everywhere like a call to arms.
 
It must be great being able to point the finger, being absolutely free from any racism or other form of prejudice oneself, whilst possessing superhuman hearing that enables one to hear dog whistles that are inaudible to mere human ears.
 
Seanm said:
There was that time you told me and Max - for some reason, me and Max - that we'd never understand British liberal values. Well well well I thought. You'd been getting gammony for a while, and saying some unpleasant and personal stuff, but that was really getting something off your chest wasn't it.
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That's the basis of your calling me - on a public forum - a racist Sean? That I or anyone else can refer to something as "British" isn't racist. People refer British people to British things.

Just trying to disentangle the usual nasty and manipulative SeanM "just sayin!" crap, why is the fact that, if I did make some similar point, I made it to you and flinn relevant?

You should not assume (among your many, many other assumptions) that those with whom you disagree are monsters, or that you can blithely lump them with the NF, etc.
 
Tim Jones said:
That's the basis of your calling me - on a public forum - a racist Sean? That I or anyone else can refer to something as "British" isn't racist. People refer British people to British things.

Just trying to disentangle the usual nasty and manipulative SeanM "just sayin!" crap, why is the fact that, if I did make some similar point, I made it to you and flinn relevant?

You should not assume (among your many, many other assumptions) that those with whom you disagree are monsters, or that you can blithely lump them with the NF, etc.
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There's no non-racist way of saying to non-British people that they'll never understand British values, just as there's no non-racist way of telling people to leave the country if they hold some opinion or other. Sorry! As with the others, if you're sensitive to the label, don't use the language.
 
Joe Hutch said:
It must be great being able to point the finger, being absolutely free from any racism or other form of prejudice oneself, whilst possessing superhuman hearing that enables one to hear dog whistles that are inaudible to mere human ears.
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We all live in racism, it’s inescapable because it’s institutional, but sitting on the fence & trying to work the middle against both ends with wit is only helping actual fascists walking just behind us & they just love useful idiots doing that. Dog whistles are there, the masks are slipping because they’re no longer needed. If you don’t hear or see them, it’s is not because they’re not there, it’s because you choose to not see or hear them.

This now only needs a witticism to complete this dreary, predictable arc.
 
Tangentially related to @Tim Jones and @Seanm ’s current locking-horns; monsters aren't cartoon baddies but ppl simply doing nothing at all. Not even evil deeds performed without evil intentions (textbook Banality of Evil stuff), but disengagement from the reality of racism being packaged up as some kind of pragmatism or short-term policy. I’ve seen “racism-isn’t-really-racism if you think about it in this way” slipping into current discourse. Monsters are not just suedeheads and cartoony 1977-era swastika’d NF thugs but ordinary folks, standing by, doing nothing, not voicing opposition.

tldr: many racists don’t even think they are, more don’t even care.
 
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'I wish I was as cocksure of anything as Tom Macaulay is of everything.' (Lord Melbourne)

I can't read minds, and am wary of ascribing motives. Obviously some people are racist and proud of it, and others are racist and guilty about it, and still more are racist and unaware of it. It's certainly possible, and necessary, to call out racist words and behaviours, but calling out 'You're a racist' because you think someone might be racist, or because it's a handy stick to beat someone with, doesn't help.

Apols if this is 'whataboutism', but if a French person said to me 'You will never understand French values', would that be racist?

Apols again for an anecdote, but it's one I like. The late W G Sebald, a somewhat gloomy German writer, was once asked by a British interviewer whether he sometimes exaggerated his gloominess for comic effect. 'Certainly not', Sebald replied 'I am always serious about what I say. I will never understand the British sense of humour, even though I have lived here for almost thirty years'.
 
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