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Johnson bans Huawei from UK network

tiggers said:
While the pfm Massive does it's usual 'it's a decision taken by "the enemy" (in this case the Johnson govt) ergo it must be wrong' dance I would just like to suggest that one of the primary qualifications for a company to tender for contracts of this size is that it must be able to transparently demonstrate its ownership structure and financial viability.... Huawei cannot or will not do that. As a result they shouldn't have ever got to first base. Maybe a decision taken for the wrong reasons and foisted upon Johnson & Co. by Trump because of Brexit which is all, I agree, unpalatable, but it's the right decision.
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I think that ignores where we have got to with them. They have been partners for well over 20 years. I could make a case regarding lamenting the foreign involvement and ownership of so much of the UK but that horse left years ago. Successive governments have made (admittedly a once only) windfall with every acquisition. They have been happy to "sell the family silver" for years. This will drag the UK comms back years and costs will be huge - just to suck Trump's butt so he can then screw us with trade.

The only difference this time is he has us by the 'nads. China were never a democratic state acting in everyone's interests - but nor is Trump, far from it. The sounds of faux anquish from IDS and other Tory traitors to the UK's interests over this is stomach wretching. They have been more than happy to sell out UK interests for years.
 
Brief but interesting discussion with an ex "head" of GCHQ on Today R4 in the past 20 minutes or so. All about telecoms/Huawei in a particular. Around 0800 for those interested.
 
tiggers said:
While the pfm Massive does it's usual 'it's a decision taken by "the enemy" (in this case the Johnson govt) ergo it must be wrong' dance I would just like to suggest that one of the primary qualifications for a company to tender for contracts of this size is that it must be able to transparently demonstrate its ownership structure and financial viability....
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You are concluding everyone wanted Chinese designed technology in the core communication infrastructure to start with! I differentiate hugely between ‘Chinese built’ and a Chinese design, e.g. pretty much every smartphone and computer on the planet regardless of brand is made there, but they are designed elsewhere. I’m not sure I’d want anything actually designed there (i.e. likely subject to the controls of the communist dictatorship) to end up at the heart of global comms structure. I agree there is a risk, maybe only a slight one, of a back-door, but that is enough not to buy there.

My criticism, as ever, is that Johnson is a blithering blustering clustercock who is always too lazy to learn his brief. Yet again he has made the wrong decision, wasted tax money, and later had to reverse it. How many times does this have to happen?
 
Tony L said:
You are concluding everyone wanted Chinese designed technology in the core communication infrastructure to start with! I differentiate hugely between ‘Chinese built’ and a Chinese design, e.g. pretty much every smartphone and computer on the planet regardless of brand is made there, but they are designed elsewhere. I’m not sure I’d want anything actually designed there (i.e. likely subject to the controls of the communist dictatorship) to end up at the heart of global comms structure
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Very much part of the discussion on R4 mentioned above, Tony. Have a listen.

I have scan-read VERY little above, but lots seems to be written by people from cloud-cuckoo land or another planet entirely. Skip telecoms, when it is cheaper to buy a dozen M6 bolts from China, than source, leave alone actually manufacture them in the UK, what does that say about any manufactured goods? People are talking about going to a system similar to Japan's Sakoku.
 
Tony L said:
I’m not sure I’d want anything actually designed there (i.e. likely subject to the controls of the communist dictatorship) to end up at the heart of global comms structure. I agree there is a risk, maybe only a slight one, of a back-door, but that is enough not to buy there. My criticism, as ever, is that Johnson is a blithering blustering clustercock who is always too lazy to learn his brief. Yet again he has made the wrong decision, wasted tax money, and later had to reverse it.
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That is pretty my my position too.
 
Give it 5-10 years after 'we take back control' and we will be begging the Chinese to trade with us. On their terms.
 
Johnson’s lot must be due another show of force from Putin. Will it be through more conventional means this time? Having said that, he might have Johnson right where he wants him- embarrassed to publish the report into the very Russian interference that assisted Johnson.
 
SteveS1 said:
This will drag the UK comms back years and costs will be huge -
.
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Nope. BT bought Huwaei for cost reasons and they did not want to be dependent on one supplier and lose negotiating power, it was economic not technological reasons and Huwawei are almost certainly subsidised by the Chinese state to get market share.
 
russel said:
Nope. BT bought Huwaei for cost reasons and they did not want to be dependent on one supplier and lose negotiating power, it was economic not technological reasons and Huwawei are almost certainly subsidised by the Chinese state to get market share.
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Ripping core stuff out, delaying 5G by a further three years (their estimate so probably more). Sounds quite expensive to me. But we are to do what Donald and his handler commands. There really is no other choice.
 
Presumably some of the UKs mainline communication system is still housed in places like this:


May be a little too close to what was a pretty important part of the UKs defence infrastructure?
I imagine what was in here was either British or Nato member built equipment, not CCP!
 
juz400 said:
Presumably some of the UKs mainline communication system is still housed in places like this:


May be a little too close to what was a pretty important part of the UKs defence infrastructure?
I imagine what was in here was either British or Nato member built equipment, not CCP!
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It would have been GPO / British Telecom:
https://www.subbrit.org.uk/features/backbone-microwave-relay-network/
https://www.subbrit.org.uk/features/cold-war-early-warning-system/
http://www.ringbell.co.uk/ukwmo/Page212.htm
 
SteveS1 said:
I think that ignores where we have got to with them. They have been partners for well over 20 years. I could make a case regarding lamenting the foreign involvement and ownership of so much of the UK but that horse left years ago. Successive governments have made (admittedly a once only) windfall with every acquisition. They have been happy to "sell the family silver" for years. This will drag the UK comms back years and costs will be huge - just to suck Trump's butt so he can then screw us with trade.

The only difference this time is he has us by the 'nads. China were never a democratic state acting in everyone's interests - but nor is Trump, far from it. The sounds of faux anquish from IDS and other Tory traitors to the UK's interests over this is stomach wretching. They have been more than happy to sell out UK interests for years.
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Agreed, but it's still the right decision.
 
tiggers said:
Agreed, but it's still the right decision.
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Until I understand how this is going to be done and what it's replaced by, I can't agree. At the moment there is not anywhere near the necessary expertise and kit available. We haven't got it, Trump certainly hasn't which is why he's pushing this. They are miles behind. You could end up with their kit in the UK system, albeit later and most certainly no more secure. Or, you could wait to be self sufficient in all aspects in which case the control of who the UK employees are, will need to be very detailed or the temptation will be to employ those working on it now. Many of those will be Chinese or Chinese trained - do you really think that is realistic?

The same scrutiny would be required for partnering companies not based in the UK.

I'm afraid this has self harming futile posturing written all over it.
 
SteveS1 said:
Until I understand how this is going to be done and what it's replaced by, I can't agree. At the moment there is not anywhere near the necessary expertise and kit available. We haven't got it, Trump certainly hasn't which is why he's pushing this. They are miles behind. You could end up with their kit in the UK system, albeit later and most certainly no more secure. Or, you could wait to be self sufficient in all aspects in which case the control of who the UK employees are, will need to be very detailed or the temptation will be to employ those working on it now. Many of those will be Chinese or Chinese trained - do you really think that is realistic?
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I think you're deliberately missing the point.

Huawei is cheaper, not better and I have no problem with Chinese employees or technology, but I do have a problem with handing over critical infrastructure elements to a supplier who will not reveal their ownership structure, their financial position and why it is they can offer 'such a good deal on their kit'... almost like it is subsidised by someone....hmmmm!

SteveS1 said:
The same scrutiny would be required for partnering companies not based in the UK.
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Good, and I don't think any others have come up short in areas such as who owns them....

SteveS1 said:
I'm afraid this has self harming futile posturing written all over it.
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Sorry, but IMO you're so wrapped up in the 'everything Trump and Johnson do is evil and wrong' (much of it is of course) that your frame of reference is too skewed to see the full picture on things like this.
 
tiggers said:
Sorry, but IMO you're so wrapped up in the 'everything Trump and Johnson do is evil and wrong' (much of it is of course) that your frame of reference is too skewed to see the full picture on things like this.
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Sorry but I think your "full picture" ignores that Trump wishes it was his companies or his handlers and I'm afraid H may be cheaper but they also are miles ahead. Where was all the indignation twenty years ago? Or even a couple of years ago when the power contracts were up? Tories have had years to object and China hasn't changed in that time, other than upsetting the orange one.

The whiff of humbug remains. The Donald has said "jump" and we've asked "how high"? Better get used to that, it's just the start.
 
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