Open letter denouncing the "restriction of debate".

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Anyone who thinks the social media platforms can be, for want of a better word, "moderated" in any meaningful way is barking up many wrong trees.

I also shudder when people suggest that some sections of society are too stupid to be left to make their own decisions.

There are definitely some sections of society which are too stupid to make their own decisions. Some of that is down to impairment, such as Alzheimer’s or brain injury, some is unfortunately an accident of birth. There is a subset of society which doesn’t fit into such categories, but which nevertheless shows few signs of being able to make decisions based on rational assessment of the relevant factors. How do we mitigate against the harm they can do to themselves or the wider community?

 

[gassor]

There are definitely some sections of society which are too stupid to make their own decisions. Some of that is down to impairment, such as Alzheimer’s or brain injury, some is unfortunately an accident of birth. There is a subset of society which doesn’t fit into such categories, but which nevertheless shows few signs of being able to make decisions based on rational assessment of the relevant factors. How do we mitigate against the harm they can do to themselves or the wider community?

A few months ago I would have vehemently disagreed, but now I'm not so sure.

 

[vuk]

There are definitely some sections of society which are too stupid to make their own decisions. Some of that is down to impairment, such as Alzheimer’s or brain injury, some is unfortunately an accident of birth. There is a subset of society which doesn’t fit into such categories, but which nevertheless shows few signs of being able to make decisions based on rational assessment of the relevant factors. How do we mitigate against the harm they can do to themselves or the wider community?

we solved this problem ages ago. not sure why you and joe are posting as if there's never even been a discussion.

i think the answer was posted just a little earlier. you try to educate people to be inquisitive and think logically/scientifically. it can never work completely, but that's the only morally-correct solution.

now, you can argue that modern education is becoming more about memory-testing ad job training, but that's another topic.

 

[vuk]

A few months ago I would have vehemently disagreed, but now I'm not so sure.

i'm trying to work out the logic of how the lack of footie led to something that dramatic.

 

[Joe Hutch]

Anyone who thinks the social media platforms can be, for want of a better word, "moderated" in any meaningful way is barking up many wrong trees.

I also shudder when people suggest that some sections of society are too stupid to be left to make their own decisions.

'Some sections' may be putting it too strongly, but certainly 'some people' are indeed too stupid, which is why we have laws about such things as wearing seat-belts and not driving under the influence of drink/drugs.

 

[Joe Hutch]

we solved this problem ages ago. not sure why you and joe are posting as if there's never even been a discussion.

i think the answer was posted just a little earlier. you try to educate people to be inquisitive and think logically/scientifically. it can never work completely, but that's the only morally-correct solution.

But what about actions which may be harmful to others beyond the individual; his/her children, for example? Is it 'morally-correct' to leave them to fend for themselves if, for example, the parents decide not to send them to school or to educate them at home?

 

[Cav]

There are definitely some sections of society which are too stupid to make their own decisions. Some of that is down to impairment, such as Alzheimer’s or brain injury, some is unfortunately an accident of birth. There is a subset of society which doesn’t fit into such categories, but which nevertheless shows few signs of being able to make decisions based on rational assessment of the relevant factors. How do we mitigate against the harm they can do to themselves or the wider community?

Leaving aside the obvious mental impairment ( which I assmed would be taken as read) the latter part of your post is arrogant beyond belief and vaguely sinister. What would you do with these irrational people?

 

[Woodface]

The problem is that some people are racists, not that they announce it to the world. Banning speech never actually solves anything.

Of course some people are racists but society needs to educate them that their views are unacceptable. It is better that they keep their views to themselves rather than cause upset to others IMV.

 

[vuk]

But what about actions which may be harmful to others beyond the individual; his/her children, for example? Is it 'morally-correct' to leave them to fend for themselves if, for example, the parents decide not to send them to school or to educate them at home?

you're going to have to connect that more explicitly to what i said for me to reply adequately, because i honestly don't know what exactly you're getting/aiming at.

 

[Cav]

'Some sections' may be putting it too strongly, but certainly 'some people' are indeed too stupid, which is why we have laws about such things as wearing seat-belts and not driving under the influence of drink/drugs.

Laws are to punish people who transgress, they do not prevent transgression. All Tories voters need to be locked up for their own good and the good of society.

 

[vuk]

Of course some people are racists but society needs to educate them that their views are unacceptable. It is better that they keep their views to themselves rather than cause upset to others IMV.

i don't agree with your second sentence. as for the first, do you understand what racism is? IMO, educating people about it to any meaningful level would require about 20% equivalent of an undergraduate degree.

 

[mansr]

Of course some people are racists but society needs to educate them that their views are unacceptable. It is better that they keep their views to themselves rather than cause upset to others IMV.

Yes, people should be raised from childhood to not be racists. Until we've managed that, they will sadly continue to hurt people. Gagging them won't help. If anything, it will strengthen their convictions.

 

[Tony L]

as for the first, do you understand what racism is? IMO, educating people about it to any meaningful level would require about 20% equivalent of an undergraduate degree.

George Floyd really should have taken your degree...

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Laws are to punish people who transgress, they do not prevent transgression. All Tories voters need to be locked up for their own good and the good of society.

Laws are not only to punish people who transgress. They do also prevent transgression, firstly by defining what is acceptable and what constitutes a transgression; secondly by informing people of this, so they can avoid transgressing; and thirdly by deterring people who might otherwise transgress.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Leaving aside the obvious mental impairment ( which I assmed would be taken as read) the latter part of your post is arrogant beyond belief and vaguely sinister. What would you do with these irrational people?

It is neither arrogant, nor sinister, but your efforts to categorise it as such appear to be an attempt to shut down discussion of the point. Which is arrogant.

There are people, anti-vaxxers being a case in point, for whom their failure to make rational, evidence-based decisions have wider repercussions for society. If we can't consider how to address the problem such people cause to society as a whole, we're probably screwed.

 

[Woodface]

i don't agree with your second sentence. as for the first, do you understand what racism is? IMO, educating people about it to any meaningful level would require about 20% equivalent of an undergraduate degree.

Really? Do you have to be so patronising?

I am a graduate in social studies, it is not good for much but probably helps me understand what racism is & how it effects those involved.

Let me give you an example.

A football player would probably prefer the racists in the crowd to not throw bananas at him, this was quite prevalent in the 80s. Of course there are still racists in the crowd but they are generally shamed into keeping their mouths shut; this is a good thing.

The early stages of educating racists is, perhaps, for them to keep their poisonous views to themselves.

I am not saying this is perfect just less harmful.

 

[Woodface]

Yes, people should be raised from childhood to not be racists. Until we've managed that, they will sadly continue to hurt people. Gagging them won't help. If anything, it will strengthen their convictions.

We will have to agree to differ on this one.

 

[mansr]

Really? Do you have to be so patronising?

I am a graduate in social studies, it is not good for much but probably helps me understand what racism is & how it effects those involved.

Let me give you an example.

A football player would probably prefer the racists in the crowd to not throw bananas at him, this was quite prevalent in the 80s. Of course there are still racists in the crowd but they are generally shamed into keeping their mouths shut; this is a good thing.

The early stages of educating racists is, perhaps, for them to keep their poisonous views to themselves.

I am not saying this is perfect just less harmful.

If they are not legally allowed to express their views, how will we know to shame them?

 

[Seeker_UK]

Laws are not only to punish people who transgress. They do also prevent transgression, firstly by defining what is acceptable and what constitutes a transgression; secondly by informing people of this, so they can avoid transgressing; and thirdly by deterring people who might otherwise transgress.

Oooh! Now there's a rabbit hole to go down. What deters the would-be transgressor: the law or the punishment?

 

[Tony L]

A good article in The Guardian backing the view that “cancel culture” is largely about established elites losing power in the social media age and attempting to discredit minority groups who now actually have the ability to speak and be heard. I firmly believe this to be the case and I am very mindful of it when moderating my little part of the internet.