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Edward Colston: Bristol slave trader statue 'was an affront'

We have to ask ourselves why we have statues of robber barons, murderers and slave traders up there in the first place.

I appreciate it was more of a rhetorical question but ISTM that it's:
  • Their own narcissism put it up.
  • Put there by others for the (one or two) good deeds who either don't know or have purposely ignored out the bad stuff?
There is a third option; to be an instrument of oppression to remind people of their place. I'm not so sure about that one but my knowledge of that area is 'thin'.
 
It was only a matter of time. A sculpture of a black playwright and poet Albert Fagon erected in Bristol has been attacked by a corrosive substance to remove the patina and make him look white. This sadly is only going to get worse I fear.
 
100%, I learned last night that there are slaves buried in St Johns Gardens at the back of St George's Hall, no names recorded just who owned them...

That was the view out of my window when I last lived in Liverpool!

I doubt you can look in any direction in Liverpool without some grizzly artefact of the slave trade being in view, including obviously many of the city’s most beautiful and iconic buildings. The brutal past can’t be undone, only honestly appraised and documented. There should clearly be some monument to the dead in St John’s Gardens, just a plaque would do. They should not be erased from history.
 
We have to ask ourselves why we have statues of robber barons, murderers and slave traders up there in the first place.

I met a traveller from an antique land,
Who said—“Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. . . . Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed;
And on the pedestal, these words appear:
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.”
 
Now having a go at the Cenotaph.
Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-53020306#

The statue of a black actor attacked in Bristol.
Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-53011774

Fawlty Towers episode removed from TV.
Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-53020335

There have been people all over this thread applauding attacks on statues, apparently unable to see any possibility of this leading somewhere nasty. Well, here we go, it looks like things are going to kick off despite some of you convincing yourselves this is all good.

It shows a clear majority in favour of its removal. It was removed. Will of the people and all that.
Piss poor. I'm surprised you would come out with shite like that.
 
There have been people all over this thread applauding attacks on statues, apparently unable to see any possibility of this leading somewhere nasty. Well, here we go, it looks like things are going to kick off despite some of you convincing yourselves this is all good.

The statues are just trinkets. What is important here is knowledge and more people better understanding the past, better understanding what racism is and how it has shaped our whole reality. If it takes almost certainly repairable damage to a few statues and a load of ignorant flag-waving knuckle-dragging far-right shit proving they are anything but the ‘master-race’ then I’ve no huge issue with that. I’d far prefer peaceful protest all round, but the ideal would be BLM being peaceful and the racist shit being racist shit. Play the long game...
 
Interesting that white people are openly freaking out about statues being damaged and TV shows being performatively brushed under the carpet but didn’t speak up when cops kill black ppl.

Err, they did! Have you not noticed the ethnic makeup of the BLM protests? This has been the case since that movement/hashtag started. BLM is unquestionably a global multicultural phenomenon.
 
Now having a go at the Cenotaph.
Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-53020306#

The statue of a black actor attacked in Bristol.
Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-53011774

Fawlty Towers episode removed from TV.
Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-53020335

There have been people all over this thread applauding attacks on statues, apparently unable to see any possibility of this leading somewhere nasty. Well, here we go, it looks like things are going to kick off despite some of you convincing yourselves this is all good.


Piss poor. I'm surprised you would come out with shite like that.
On the other hand, if this is your "somewhere nasty" then it's not really that troubling is it? Other statues - and progressive monuments are already subject to right wing vandalism - and some old sitcoms? This is real pearl-clutching stuff Brian.
 
Interesting that white people are openly freaking out about statues being damaged and TV shows being performatively brushed under the carpet but didn’t speak up when cops kill black ppl.

Priorities eh?
What’s fascinating is that one of the most vociferous Brexit supporters on pfm turns up to express outrage that the statue of a white slaver is taken down, yet when Grenfell Tower went up with seventy odd people burned to death in it, nothing, radio silence.
 
Conventional wisdom has it that the 'clear majority' of Brexit voters was not in favour of 'no deal'. What you vote for and what you get rarely seem to align, do they?
Once you invent The Will Of The People and The Enemies Of The People, who knows where it can end?
 
The statues are just trinkets. What is important here is knowledge and more people better understanding the past, better understanding what racism is and how it has shaped our whole reality. If it takes almost certainly repairable damage to a few statues and a load of ignorant flag-waving knuckle-dragging far-right shit proving they are anything but the ‘master-race’ then I’ve no huge issue with that. I’d far prefer peaceful protest all round, but the ideal would be BLM being peaceful and the racist shit being racist shit. Play the long game...
I think there is actually an education opportunity here. Keep the statues, explain the bigger picture. Weigh up the pros and cons of each individual. For BP and the Scouts I'd say that the benefits he gave to generations of young people outweighs his homophobic, far right and racist views. You DO have to put these views in their historical context. Otherwise where do you stop? No right thinking person would use the N word today and the P word is happily going the same way, but it's not reasonable to go back to 1970 and find someone guilty of offensive racist behaviour for using those words when they were in common parlance and *in the context of the time* more acceptable. I'm not condoning anyone's behaviour in this, but context is all. Between 1939 and 1945 men went out and shot other men dead. Civilians too. We don't now judge them for murder. We can regret what happened, but we have to look at the bigger picture and through the lens of what was then normal and acceptable. As Tony says we can repair a few statues. It's only a bit of bronze. A skilled worker with an oxy acetylene torch and a bronze filler rod can sort that out in an afternoon. Then get them stood up again, and explain the person in the round, for good or ill. We all cheered when Saddam went down, and nobody is saying that we should put Hitler and Stalin back out there, but they have to be given their place in history.

One thing that concerns me is excessive Bowdlerisation of the arts. I hear this morning that the Fawlty Towers sketch "The Germans", complete with "Don't mention the war!" is being taken from one UK TV channel. Excuse me? The whole POINT of that episode is that it parodies the idiocy of racist behaviour. The humour is directed AT the racist, Basil is the idiotic target, and by the end as the whole scene descends into chaos the only voice of reason is the German tourist who stands shaking his head in disbelief and saying "How did they win?". I have seen this episode shown to Germans, they howl with laughter precisely because it calls out the anti-German sentiments that were apparent in the UK in the 60s, 70s and even into the 80s and shows up racists of all stripes as fools. If we remove this episode from the screens we fail to hold up racists to the ridicule they deserve, and that is not progress.
 
Err, they did! Have you not noticed the ethnic makeup of the BLM protests? This has been the case since that movement/hashtag started. BLM is unquestionably a global multicultural phenomenon.

It started when a police execution gets posted to the internet and goes viral. I see none of you freaking out at the two black trans women murdered this week, or the black Lives matter protest organiser that suddenly went missing yesterday, none of you really gave a shit when Breonna got murdered or the hundreds of others murdered and straight up executed by cops, zero outrage. But take out some statues of some dead white dudes and ppl start to lose their shit with “Where will this all end?” Hand wringing ensues.

Property matters but black lives don’t. Performative protest, no matter how multicultural it is of no use, and we need to be sure that protest = change.

otherwise

 


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