If I had said any of this you would have a point. But I didn't. I didn't call you or anyone else wrong. I said "harsh and edgy like their amps" which is obviously my subjective opinion. I went on to say "if this is what you like, fine" which doesn't call anyone wrong either. I'm expressing my opinion because, guess what, someone asked a question. They asked for opinions on naim CDs, I gave them mine. That's all. They asked, I answered. You're the one that descended to name -calling.
The (almost) bi-polar nature of Naim's products and customers . . .
- Thread starter Bob Edwards
- Start date
herb
brain's right hemisphere
Brand mythology created by clever marketing is why. They made ownership feel like joining an exclusive club reserved for "special people" who "get it" and then have the "right" to sneer at non flat earth audiophiles who are to be pitied for failing to "see the light"... such is the proselytising zeal of their apostles that they hardly need to advertise whilst "true believers" consider themselves almost grateful and honoured to be allowed to pay £2000 for a transformer in a box. It's the state of the art.... in marketing
Price update Jez, a Naim 555PSDR is £7499, recommended power supply for my CDX2.2
Andrew C!
Been around a while....
To be fair they didn't nick it. RCA put it out there for people to use in order to increase sales, which is fair enough. If I manufactured a food and printed a recipe on the ba ck, then someone opened a restaurant selling my product made up in that recipe and people were happy to buy it and eat it, who's complaining? Same goes for loads of devices. Bosch make electrical stuff for cars, if BMW want to use their stuff can they have some technical advice? Er certainly Mr Herr BMW engineer, we can give you all the advice you need. We'll send an engineer today if that helps you buy our stuff. Hitachi did it for the Mosfet circuit, that's in loads of amps too.
Every Naim thread you're on it like a tramp on chips
Shiny new toys
Milking its market
£50 Chinese stuff is much better
Blah blah blah!
You can try and be clever and pretend you're not crapping on the brand, but you're clearly ill equipped to do so!
Are you saying that you only do a bit of it, now and again, and you could stop tomorrow if you wanted to?
Del monaco
Del Monaco
I suppose that’s an attempt at articulating the point, I think.
Crapping on the brand? I think it's a little bigger than me. Why are you so insecure? I don't like the Naim sound. So what? People ask for opinions on here. Other people give them. Hifi brands are shiny new toys. They appeal to exactly the same sentiment. Naim are a commercial organisation. Of course they are milking the market. What would you do faced with wealthy customers drooling for a new bit of lounge jewellery? I'd take their money. As for £50 Chinese stuff, we all know that would have a £1000 price tag if it came out of Salisbury. I've not said it's better. At £50 plays £1000 it doesn't need to be.
We get you don't like it, you just don't need to keep telling us. Why are you such an attention seeker on these threads? Actually on that point I'm just giving you what you want... keep posting until you get some attention and then start calling people insecure etc. just because they call you out! Must help you feel better about yourself I guess. Oh and you did say your £50 Chinese gear was better than anything Naim had produced so your next response will doubtless be to demand I link to that... well save it as I have better things to do, I'm out of here. Everyone else, have a great weekend!
Martyn Miles
pfm Member
I would always avoid Chinese equipment, given the choice.
Soon we probably won’t have a choice...
Soon we probably won’t have a choice...
See you, shut the door on your way out.
Rockmeister
pfm Member
I think a whole lot of the reason for the swift downward spiral of these type of threads is that those who have, apparently, been taken in by the marketing, and to boot have enough cash to spend on a full (insert very expensive kit make) system, really don't enjoy having their decisions derided. I mean, in real life, walking up to a new posh car owner and laughing in their face, whilst pointing out all the cars problems is never going to go down well.
Esp when it's all true
Esp when it's all true
Arkless Electronics
Trade: Amp design and repairs.
You know what I meant... Obviously an app note is supposed to encourage the use of the manufacturers product.
The point is it wasn't state of the art or anywhere near it even when it was published and was in fact a pretty generic circuit for a DC coupled quasi complementary power amp (see the JLH 75W Hi fi News design of 1972 for a similar but rather more refined version of it). More salient is the point that many, many other companies used the same or very similar circuits in the '72 - 77 ish period and for everything from hi fi amps to amps for guitar, bass, electric organs, PA etc etc and they are all considered unremarkable/old tat/worthless but when Naim put it in their casework and with their logo on it then it's suddenly the holy grail of amplification and worth a small fortune!
Suffolk Tony
Aim low, achieve your goals, avoid disappointment.
A solid twelve points, right there.I think a whole lot of the reason for the swift downward spiral of these type of threads is that those who have, apparently, been taken in by the marketing, and to boot have enough cash to spend on a full (insert very expensive kit make) system, really don't enjoy having their decisions derided. I mean, in real life, walking up to a new posh car owner and laughing in their face, whilst pointing out all the cars problems is never going to go down well.
Esp when it's all true
Timcat
pfm Member
Why isn't a Quad 306 £4000 then? Same parts quality, same reliability, same serviceability, more expensive to make casework, unique and very clever topology...
Why isn't an A&R A60 worth at least as much as an early Nait? Similar circuitry, equally good sound, just as serviceable, similar parts and construction of PCB etc...
Brand mythology created by clever marketing is why. They made ownership feel like joining an exclusive club reserved for "special people" who "get it" and then have the "right" to sneer at non flat earth audiophiles who are to be pitied for failing to "see the light"... such is the proselytising zeal of their apostles that they hardly need to advertise whilst "true believers" consider themselves almost grateful and honoured to be allowed to pay £2000 for a transformer in a box. It's the state of the art.... in marketing
Naim market their products in exactly the same way as Swiss watch manufacturers do their mechanical creations. This is a very effective method of doing business for small European manufacturers with high cost bases. You could ask similar questions about watches; why does a Rolex Datejust cost about £7k and a Grand Seiko £2.5, when the Rolex is accurate to within a few seconds a day and the Grand Seiko is accurate to +- 5 seconds .... a year! At least Naim amplifiers deliver a sound quality on a par with the old Quad!
All so called luxury brands do this.
Why isn't a Quad 306 £4,000? It's been out of production for years and the company had to be rescued by IAG because it failed to learn how to market its products successfully, which has tarnished the brand. Besides which, the 306 is about equivalent to a NAP 250 and I have not seen any 25 year old NAP 250s fetch £4,000. As for the A&R, products produced by now defunct companies always depreciate on the second hand market.
As for the £2,000 transformer in a box, this approach is not that different to that adopted by many other manufacturers. Witness those that screw Hypex nCore or ICE power boards into expensive looking boxes and sell these for thousands. It's just business.
Naim produce some truly appealing consumer products, like the current Uniti range. These don't sell much to audiophiles, but they do appeal to aspirational consumers; they look great, sound pretty good and are easy to use.
Robert M
pfm Member
What's this all about, I thought these made in China products can't be fixed, so why the big selling price.
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-5...0001&campid=5338728743&icep_item=293570215706
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-5...0001&campid=5338728743&icep_item=293570215706
This site contains affiliate links for which pink fish media may be compensated.
norliss
pfm Member
Readers of this thread may find this thread at SHF of interest...
Arkless Electronics
Trade: Amp design and repairs.
Indeed. I almost used the Rolex watch analogy myself earlier! The point, as you say, is that it's very successful branding and marketing over actual substance. It's business.
I find this whole "Veblen goods" thing incredibly distasteful and the likes of Naim being able to take a huge slice of the hi fi pie for no other reason than a brand name even more so.
If the Quad 306 was still available it would be maybe £800. Nothing about it's design, construction, parts quality or reliability is any less good than a NAP250... nor, arguably, is the sound! Both were hand made in the UK (then). Naim get away with ripping people off for £4000 simply because it says Naim on it. That's what really boils my piss about them.... that and the way they brainwashed people, along with Linn and numerous dealers all riding the flat earth gravy train, into thinking it really is worth it, to the extent they will queue up on threads such as this to explain why a transformer in a box is worth thousands... and us plebs just don't get it... cos it's not just any transformer in a box it's an M&S erm Naim one
They could no doubt get away with selling an empty Naim shoe box case with just a power-on LED lighting up on the front for £1000 as a way of making your Naim stack look symmetrical A&R are not defunct BTW. "Amplification and Recording (Cambridge)" shortened it to "A&R Cambridge" and then to "Arcam"
yeti42
pfm Member
Is the ire reserved for Naim? Anyone else on the shit list? How about Audionote? Very tasty price list, or it would be if it wasn’t need to know only. Who else? There’s a lot of high priced hifi out there when you go looking. If the shows are anything to go by most of it only fit for jazz.
