Joe Hutch
Mate of the bloke
If I didn't have two ears, my glasses would fall off.
Election night 2019 / aftermath II
- Thread starter Joe
- Start date
If I didn't have two ears, my glasses would fall off.
Joe Hutch
Mate of the bloke
But we must not call them 'thick' or Brian will be on our case.
Marchbanks
Hat and Beard member
That has an air of euphemism about it to me...
Jesus Christ. Is there any point in this thread any more ?
Tony L
Administrator
I know, I just didn’t realise rabbits did it!
glancaster
In the silicon vale
He shoots! He scores! (But I claim the assist.)
notaclue
pfm Member
Well, I can answer that last bit. I bet that picture is literally starting to emerge from London.
glancaster
In the silicon vale
Seriously, any party that wants to win an election has to deal with the electorate that they have, not some fantasy electorate they would like to have.
They don't have to pander to them, but they have to present their ideas in a way that has widespread appeal. That's what political leadership is.
If you can't do that, the problem is either with your ideas, or the way you presented them. In either case, it is with you. You need to do better. If you've been playing for a while, and things don't improve, you need to get off the pitch and let someone else have a crack.
Don't ever blame the electorate. It makes you look like a comedian who bombs, and blames the audience for not laughing at their jokes.
Kind regards
- Garry
They don't have to pander to them, but they have to present their ideas in a way that has widespread appeal. That's what political leadership is.
If you can't do that, the problem is either with your ideas, or the way you presented them. In either case, it is with you. You need to do better. If you've been playing for a while, and things don't improve, you need to get off the pitch and let someone else have a crack.
Don't ever blame the electorate. It makes you look like a comedian who bombs, and blames the audience for not laughing at their jokes.
Kind regards
- Garry
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
Eh? Are you referring to me? I don't give a shite what you call anyone. If I did I would never stop reporting posts yet I've never reported any.
Seanm
pfm Member
No, from activists in the north who are screaming at London that they've been trying to tell them this for a long time. It's the extreme end of a not uncommon feeling in some places that Labour actually represent the status quo and Boris represents a change. It doesn't make people thick: it's based on the reality of Labour having been in local power for decades, and Boris representing their voice on Brexit. We'll need an audit of the Conservative campaign but I suspect they recognised this and it shaped their strategy: targeted Facebook ads supported by Sajid JAvid and Priti Patel saying Labour caused all this homelessness, Labour caused all this child poverty. When they said this everyone just went WTF are these people on but seems now to have been deliberate, coordinated .
This isn't an excuse for Labour, by the way. It's an indictment. Short term the messaging on this - that Labour have a real, economic offer e.g. investing in the steel industry, scrapping universal credit - should have been laser focused and longer term we should have been reforming local councils. I myself heard the "Might vote Tory for a change" in my own London constituency in 2017 and it worried me deeply but I immediately forgot about it after the 2017 result. So it's on us, not the people who we failed to reach.
A big problem is that part of your audience is the media, the lens through which much of your message is seen (or not) by the electorate. It puts us in a position where only by modifying your policies to a level acceptable to the media can you get anything approaching a fair hearing/support.
I should add I'm not defending labours performance and I see merit in every criticism and reason given for their failure, but this must include media power and bias.
Marchbanks
Hat and Beard member
Which implies (if lots of people in many constituencies literally thought Labour had been in power for 10 years as you say) that going in to the election said people either didn’t realize Johnson was PM or thought he was Labour leader. I wonder which? ‘Who is the PM?’ was one of the questions my mother was asked when doctors were trying to ascertain whether or not she was suffering from dementia.
It also begs the question ‘who did they vote for at the last election, and why?’
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
Since you mentions eats.
When I was a lad, rabbit was often on the menu and very nice it is too, especially with mashed spud, peas and gravy. Also makes a good pie filling and the supply seems endless.
sean99
pfm Member
Tories make other people eat poo. It’s in important distinction.
Funk
pfm Member
It's also paradoxical that areas struggling with severe deprivation keep on voting in the same politicians who've been ineffective about improving things locally for them.
As a (small c) conservative I didn't want to 'vote for Boris' - the man is a buffoon and I don't really trust him. The problem is that there is no way on earth I could've voted Labour with many of the crazy policies they were pitching - it's all well and good promising eleventy thousand new this or that or money for whatever but the reality is that almost every Labour policy can be eviscerated by simply asking how they plan to pay for it. Labour have proven time and again that they are excellent at running out of other peoples' money.
One of the fundamentals I also disagree with is promising 'equality'; equality of what? There's a world of difference between equality of outcome and equality of opportunity. One encourages progression, self-improvement and work, the other discourages it because if you just get given everything, why try harder?
In the end I shut out all the noise and reduced it to one simple question - who do I think will best represent my constituency in the HoC? That's the basis I voted on.
glancaster
In the silicon vale
This has been well discussed already, including the waning power of the traditional media and the rising dominance of online and social media. But, just as with the electorate, you have to deal with the world as it truly is, too, and the media is part of that. Create a strategy. Deal with it. If you need to compromise your ideals somewhat to actually get elected, than that is what you will have to do. If you can't figure out a way through the forest, you aren't up to the job: call it a day and let someone else have a go.
I have no use for a party that would have done great things if it wasn't for the media. No one does.
Kind regards
- Garry
Alex S
carbon based lifeform
Fixed.
matthewr
spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld
It's not a euphemism -- it just means, er, socially illiberal.
Joe Hutch
Mate of the bloke
Plus, of course, social media was regarded as 'A Good Thing' when it enabled the rapid growth in Labour Party membership around the time when Corbyn became leader. The other side have now cottoned on to this. It's like an arms race; any new weapon will only win battles until the enemy either duplicates it or finds something better.