misterdog
Not the canine kind
Or do as we did last Sunday and organise a bake off where 20 peoples opinions can be garnered.
Ethernet Cable Shoot Out – Shunyata, AudioQuest, Supra, Viablue, Ugreen
- Thread starter The Chronicals
- Start date
Or do as we did last Sunday and organise a bake off where 20 peoples opinions can be garnered.
The Chronicals
Disruptor
Wonderful, looking forward to hearing your review and reading your thread. Feel free to post a link once you've written. Don't keep it a secret, or it didn't happen.
For me, in my opinion, 20 living, breathing, organic people in a room, would have way too much personal energy enveloped in a small area and would skew results/perceptions/senses. However, I would still more than welcome reading about it and not discount the findings at all, keeps the hobby alive and the open mind churning and learning. I wouldnt discount anyone elses methods or experience at all.
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The OP made a valid point that he didn't like the Supra CAT8, someone told him it was to do with the shielding, which is correct, CAT8 is not designed as an audio cable anyway. It is a high bandwidth data cable.
The OP favoured a well made CAT 6a cable from Shunyata. That makes sense. It's the right type of cable and Shunyata know how to make good cables. They've been at it for about 20 years from a background of researching cables for military and medical applications, principally power cables.
Whilst materials like silver plating may have an impact on analogue cables, I've never heard any reason why such materials are relevant to data cables. Data cables are all about topology and shielding, not materials, so I have no idea why people like AudioQuest use silver - and charge for it.
Belden are one of the world's leading designers and researchers of commercial cabling and switching. They have revenues of some $2.5 billion annually, that's about 100 times the sales of Linn, one of the UK's leading audio companies. So Belden know about cables, especially data cables. One of their senior designers set up Blue Jeans Cable for well made audio cables at budget prices and they now have a brand called Iconoclast for high end analogue cables. You can spend $2,000 on their analogue cables, but the most expensive 1m ethernet cable cost $16. It's made of Belden bonded pairs in CAT6a, it has a very thin sheath that appears to be heat shrunk to keep the structure intact and each cable is tested and certified. The CAT6 version costs $10 and the CAT5e costs $5.25, but is not made from bonded pairs. They are cheap because the Belden bonded pairs are made in vast quantities to very tight tolerances. I'm not entirely sure what more you want from an audio data cable, which is why I bought three of them, total cost delivered was £47.
The OP favoured a well made CAT 6a cable from Shunyata. That makes sense. It's the right type of cable and Shunyata know how to make good cables. They've been at it for about 20 years from a background of researching cables for military and medical applications, principally power cables.
Whilst materials like silver plating may have an impact on analogue cables, I've never heard any reason why such materials are relevant to data cables. Data cables are all about topology and shielding, not materials, so I have no idea why people like AudioQuest use silver - and charge for it.
Belden are one of the world's leading designers and researchers of commercial cabling and switching. They have revenues of some $2.5 billion annually, that's about 100 times the sales of Linn, one of the UK's leading audio companies. So Belden know about cables, especially data cables. One of their senior designers set up Blue Jeans Cable for well made audio cables at budget prices and they now have a brand called Iconoclast for high end analogue cables. You can spend $2,000 on their analogue cables, but the most expensive 1m ethernet cable cost $16. It's made of Belden bonded pairs in CAT6a, it has a very thin sheath that appears to be heat shrunk to keep the structure intact and each cable is tested and certified. The CAT6 version costs $10 and the CAT5e costs $5.25, but is not made from bonded pairs. They are cheap because the Belden bonded pairs are made in vast quantities to very tight tolerances. I'm not entirely sure what more you want from an audio data cable, which is why I bought three of them, total cost delivered was £47.
The Chronicals
Disruptor
Cool, I didn't like the Belden cable, didn't sound as good as the Shunyata. So i bought a Shunyata. Sounding better is what i wanted in an audio data cable.
The silver tinned cables, sounded like silver cables similar to how they do in an analogue format, just 'less'. Probably why companies use it. The Audioquest Vodka was the most radically different sounding cable in the selection, this was also the same when I tried the USB version of it.
misterdog
Not the canine kind
Write ups have been available on at least 3 audio forums for a week now.
Not such a small space.
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35451
Guest
Does your setup sound any different to you if you use wi fi in the streaming chain (data source to dac)?
The Chronicals
Disruptor
My Lumin dosent have Wifi, otherwise I definitely would have done, so can't answer. Lumin believe Wifi isnt the best method for audio, but Aurelic believe it is, horses courses. In my flat I can find over 40 wifi networks....thats enough head frying for me, Ill save my hifi the radiation
Also quite a few people have emailed me to confirm where the network cable was placed - they didnt want to post on the thread to avoid the usual thread crapping cyclic arguments.
This cable was used from Switch to Streamer.
The rest of the system Modem to Router, Router to Switch and NAS to switch is done by Supra Cat 8.
I did think about trying the cable in the NAS to Switch area, but I didn't want to go down the rabbit hole as it would be a mind field to do and costly. From my research, it was found this is the best place for the main audio cable and I was over the moon with the results.
pacman
Member
Like your good self I changed the network cable between the switch and the laptop and this did make a difference using a simple chord network cable. Music all round better musically. Also changed cable between tv and switch again good differences.
Thanks for the write up. I will be looking at some of those cables.
Thanks for the write up. I will be looking at some of those cables.
Did changing the network cable have a positive effect on the TV picture quality? Or was it an audiophile only cable, not an audio-videophile one?
jamington2004
pfm Member
I honestly believe it’s all in the mind. Doesn’t mean you can’t hear it or you are wrong, because it’s our minds / brain that makes us hear right?
I had a great chat to one the guys at Kii last week - and he made a great point about the brain just being a sophisticated computer that transmits vibrations in the ear and translates them into sounds in our head! And if it’s multitasking then it’s not going to be as good at that. IE trying to listen to music / judge a new pair of speaker when stressed / busy / in a rush / distracted etc
I don’t think I would be able to remember differences between cables, or trust my judgment when the very fact I was focusing on trying to remember different sounds and swapping them over, would be multi tasking and take away my ability to listen properly
My humble pennies worth after 4 double gins and a brilliant afternoon of listening to music while the kids are away
I had a great chat to one the guys at Kii last week - and he made a great point about the brain just being a sophisticated computer that transmits vibrations in the ear and translates them into sounds in our head! And if it’s multitasking then it’s not going to be as good at that. IE trying to listen to music / judge a new pair of speaker when stressed / busy / in a rush / distracted etc
I don’t think I would be able to remember differences between cables, or trust my judgment when the very fact I was focusing on trying to remember different sounds and swapping them over, would be multi tasking and take away my ability to listen properly
My humble pennies worth after 4 double gins and a brilliant afternoon of listening to music while the kids are away
The Chronicals
Disruptor
Thats why you do the guessing game and have an assistant, when you guess correctly most times, you know it's not all in your head. Also, being a long term musician helps, trained hearing etc.
But definitely agree, state of health and mentality can alter what you hear or perception of what you hear...do some yoga or drop a valium, everything sounds better, the gaba connection etc. But sort of a different discussion, this is just a cable review.
jamington2004
pfm Member
Yeah no idea why I chipped in really - I shouldn’t care about such things and keep away!!
I was also thinking to myself why would Kii ship speakers out with basic cat 5 cables if they could make their speakers sound as good as possible with better ones at almost no extra cost?
Anyway - that’s me over and out I shouldn’t have posted I am no expert on the subject and it wasn’t helpful the debate about those cables you tried.
And re ABX testing - definitely not it would drive me insane
Best of luck to everyone who can upgrade their sound through new Ethernet cables though!!
I was also thinking to myself why would Kii ship speakers out with basic cat 5 cables if they could make their speakers sound as good as possible with better ones at almost no extra cost?
Anyway - that’s me over and out I shouldn’t have posted I am no expert on the subject and it wasn’t helpful the debate about those cables you tried.
And re ABX testing - definitely not it would drive me insane
Best of luck to everyone who can upgrade their sound through new Ethernet cables though!!
The Chronicals
Disruptor
Yeah no idea why I chipped in really - I shouldn’t care about such things and keep away!!
I was also thinking to myself why would Kii ship speakers out with basic cat 5 cables if they could make their speakers sound as good as possible with better ones at almost no extra cost?
Anyway - that’s me over and out I shouldn’t have posted I am no expert on the subject and it wasn’t helpful the debate about those cables you tried.
And re ABX testing - definitely not it would drive me insane
Beat of luck to everyone who can upgrade their sound through new Ethernet cables though!!
The same way they charge hundreds for a 'remote' - cost and profit, probably. Lots of people have found improvements using shielded mains cables for those actives too, but they don't ship with them either. Or they would get accused of 'not being properly engineered devices' blah blah, so better to ship with crap!
ABX testing is dull. I only did it this way, as a one off, to know I could spot the differences, in future I don't need to bother
In the Kii Three the CAT5 cable is not transmitting a normal digital signal, but a signal using a proprietary protocol. CAT5 should be used.
Kit Three are supplied with relatively cheap power cables because EU law requires powered products to be supplied with an appropriate plugged cable. For a powered speaker it would be pointless applying an expensive cable that is too short. Audio components can be expected to be placed near a mains socket, but not powered speakers.
My modem and audio/AV system are about 25m apart. I ran 25m fibre optic direct to the server unswitched, but also ran ethernet for general wifi and to distribute Sky Q around the house. Sky Q uses far more bandwidth than audio. I bought a 25m AudioQuest Pearl CAT6 from Futureshop. The cable is more than sufficient, well made and AudioQuest supply Futureshop with their own RJ45 plugs, which Futureshop can fit and test. It cost £93 delivered.
I, for one, appreciate the effort and that you had the balls to report on this. Nobody thinking in a purely scientific manner wants to believe an Ethernet cable can affect audio, but clearly something is going on here. Alas, short of getting all the forum members up close and personal with the cat lady in the room with you, you will never be able to convince everyone.
I think the problem is people bring ideas about audio analogue cables to digital data cables that are totally irrelevant. Cables are designed for commercial use to transmit larger amounts of data longer distances and people think what is good for that is good for audio, which it isn't.
The Chronicals
Disruptor
I appreciate your comments.
It's just a thread hijack with personal belief structures and motivations, it was inevitable that it would happen. A lot of the trolling posts have already been removed, some haven't. The majority that do seldom leave anything productive on their own, most do not have any of their own threads discussing their own experiences or discoveries, this is generally very telling.
The reality is, there are audible differences in the ethernet cables - how that happens, isn't really relevant to the original posting, and definitely dosent matter to me, as audio, for me, is the end point, so what I hear is what matters the most, and this is what was reflected in the review, and was my motivation to spend some time testing and relating that to others that have interest. It's not so much about trying to convince anyone, just relaying personal experience, again for those that have interest.
Right, a better data cable does not necessarily mean a better audio cable, but the fact there is any difference at all, that is what leaves most of us scratching our heads. The brain has much to answer for.
The Chronicals
Disruptor
Lots of things defy common logic in the world! Not just involving Hifi
This thread is really interesting
https://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/cable-insultation.226601/
The Op found audible differences after wrapping some his cables in tin foil..sounds mental, but I would definitely not discount that it may have done, in that environment with that kit.