Oh Britain, what have you done (part ∞+10)?

[droodzilla]

That would be too much of a Hollywood ending (Prime Minister Corbyn signs the Norway agreement at 10.30pm on 29 March). And as we should know by know, there will be no Hollywood ending with Brexit...

"Beth Rigby‏Verified account @BethRigby
NEW: Told in various comings & goings in Whitehall today, 7 senior Lab MPs met with a senior minister to stress that while or 80 so Lab MPs voted for Norway option in past, they won’t support that pivot now. Clear #PeoplesVote the only option they’d support
6:20 PM - 6 Dec 2018"

I expect the Norway option would become live after a vote of no confidence (which will fail) and an attempt to get a 2nd referendum (which will probably fail). At that point it would be the best compromise and (I hope) MPs will see that. Either way, the worst case is either a 2nd referendum (which Leave might win!) or a Norway+ compromise.

 

[farfromthesun]

Many here are forgetting this.

Yes, and thankfully it's just a few of you forgetting that if Brexit happens, we're all stuffed, and the poorest will be even poorer afterwards, and Labour won't have a pot to piss in to help anyone.

 

[TheDecameron]

Is Norway a vassalage-free dining option?

 

[Stunsworth]

Is Norway a vassalage-free dining option?

No. It includes free movement of people, so Rees-Mogg, Johnson, and presumably the Labour Party, would be against it...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway–European_Union_relations

 

[TheDecameron]

No. It includes free movement of people, so Rees-Mogg, Johnson, and presumably the Labour Party, would be against it...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway–European_Union_relations

It seems madness to go back over this stuff then. The driver for Brexit that May and Co keep referring to is “ending free movement”. Gammon want the foreigners out and full control of laws- that surely means total Brexit? Why is Westminster spinning on its arse like a dying bluebottle, nearly three years into this morass?

 

[ff1d1l]

Prime Minister May to cling on as we head to a second referendum? Don't bet against it.

Theresa May’s Team Has Discussed A Second Referendum Or A Softer Brexit If Her Deal Is Killed Next Week
“It has come to the point where you feel like you are in that Mitchell and Webb sketch when one of the Nazis looks at the other and asks, ‘Are we the baddies?’” a Number 10 aide told BuzzFeed News. https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/may-team-second-referendum-soft-brexit

Re a second referendum...I've said before that this would hold some plusses for the tories.
Gets them out of a tight spot.
Good PR for finally listening to the will of the people.
Would wrong foot the opposition - would they dare to vote against it?
Would probably get through parliament.
Absolves them of delivering brexit - unless, of course the vote went leave - even then their hand would be strengthened.

 

[Stunsworth]

It seems madness to go back over this stuff then. The driver for Brexit that May and Co keep referring to is “ending free movement”. Gammon want the foreigners out and full control of laws- that surely means total Brexit? Why is Westminster spinning on its arse like a dying bluebottle, three years nearly into this morass?

I’ve no idea. The only possibility as things stand is to crash out without a deal. That would be a disaster for most in the country - especially the less well off. Government revenues would plummet, goods would increase in price and/or become scarce, unemployment would rise.

 

[droodzilla]

It seems madness to go back over this stuff then. The driver for Brexit that May and Co keep referring to is “ending free movement”. Gammon want the foreigners out and full control of laws- that surely means total Brexit? Why is Westminster spinning on its arse like a dying bluebottle, nearly three years into this morass?

I never thought I'd say this but listen to Stephen Kinnock's speech. He seems to think there is some wriggle room over free movement and he ought to know, given that both his mum and dad have had their "snouts in the EU trough" for yonks. It might be just enough of a compromise to satisfy all but the Hard Brexit loons and the Hard Remain extremists and it stands a fighting chance of getting through the HoC.

Forecasts put the impact on GDP of this option at around -1.6% after 15 years so the economic hit is still there but not huge.

I'm not wedded to this option. At this stage I'd be equally happy with a second referendum but that carries some risk either way. I'm not happy with May's deal, no deal or Parliament unilaterally stopping Brexit.

 

[TheDecameron]

I’ve no idea. The only possibility as things stand is to crash out without a deal. That would be a disaster for most in the country - especially the less well off. Government revenues would plummet, goods would increase in price and/or become scarce, unemployment would rise.

Yet there are substantial numbers on the government benches (and some opposite) who want this very thing.

 

[TheDecameron]

C4 News is in a hi tech exporter in Blyth Northumberland- highly vulnerable to a hard Brexit- virtually none of the audience want to remain in the EU and they’re not interested in a second referendum. They want out- with or without a magic unicorn deal. The turkey-Yuletide interface right there.

 

[Stunsworth]

Yet there are substantial numbers on the government benches (and some opposite) who want this very thing.

A glib answer would be that they wanted a return to 19th century working practices, but the world is very different from what it was then.

 

[stephen bennett]

I expect the Norway option would become live after a vote of no confidence (which will fail) and an attempt to get a 2nd referendum (which will probably fail). At that point it would be the best compromise and (I hope) MPs will see that. Either way, the worst case is either a 2nd referendum (which Leave might win!) or a Norway+ compromise.

But doesn’t Norway mean the backstop stays? We’d have to be in the CU as well, so no trade deals and it’s almost the same cost.

How would that get through the HoC?

Stephen

 

[Seanm]

I never thought I'd say this but listen to Stephen Kinnock's speech. He seems to think there is some wriggle room over free movement and he ought to know, given that both his mum and dad have had their "snouts in the EU trough" for yonks. It might be just enough of a compromise to satisfy all but the Hard Brexit loons and the Hard Remain extremists and it stands a fighting chance of getting through the HoC.

Forecasts put the impact on GDP of this option at around -1.6% after 15 years so the economic hit is still there but not huge.

I'm not wedded to this option. At this stage I'd be equally happy with a second referendum but that carries some risk either way. I'm not happy with May's deal, no deal or Parliament unilaterally stopping Brexit.

Blimey. Corbo's having none of it though:

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...yn-general-election-brexit-labour-theresa-may

C4 News is in a hi tech exporter in Blyth Northumberland- highly vulnerable to a hard Brexit- virtually none of the audience want to remain in the EU and they’re not interested in a second referendum. They want out- with or without a magic unicorn deal. The turkey-Yuletide interface right there.

They were in my manah last night, can't even be bothered to take the Authentocrat safari outside of London anymore. T___ting around with t__t dream-team Rees-Mogg and Alistair Campbell. Not sure there's a redder or Remainier spot in the country right now and they still managed to talk almost exclusively to send 'em back Leavers.

 

[gassor]

I'm not wedded to this option. At this stage I'd be equally happy with a second referendum but that carries some risk either way. I'm not happy with May's deal, no deal or Parliament unilaterally stopping Brexit.

Apart from the backstop conumdrum and Labour's 6 tests (which are unpassable anyway) can you say why May's deal is unacceptable to you?

Just ignore this Drood. I've been doing some reading, and no it wasn't the Ladybird library.

 

[gassor]

C4 News is in a hi tech exporter in Blyth Northumberland- highly vulnerable to a hard Brexit- virtually none of the audience want to remain in the EU and they’re not interested in a second referendum. They want out- with or without a magic unicorn deal. The turkey-Yuletide interface right there.

Most 2 year olds when they are told an iron will burn you - keep away, but some adults it seems will stick it onto their forehead regardless.

 

[twotone]

C4 News is in a hi tech exporter in Blyth Northumberland- highly vulnerable to a hard Brexit- virtually none of the audience want to remain in the EU and they’re not interested in a second referendum. They want out- with or without a magic unicorn deal. The turkey-Yuletide interface right there.

Just watched it, breathtaking stupidity but as my daughter pointed out the people there have nothing to lose as they're largely forgotten but still...

 

[Seanm]

Don't look down:

Got to let things run their course. A referendum now would be a huge risk.

 

[Swamp Thing]

Not entirely sure Sean but (brace yourself) Stephen Kinnock just made a plausible case for Norway+ in the HoC debate and addressed quite a few of the concerns raised about it on this thread (e.g. Norway says it would be happy for the UK to join the EEA).

It's an option that would minimise the economic impact of Brexit while respecting the vote. It might be able to command a majority in the HoC and (amazingly) might even unite the left and right wings of the Labour Party.

 

[markvdv]

Even edited like this clip, to me Farage is more credible than Maybot. But I am a foreigner.

 

[wyjsar]

Blimey. Corbo's having none of it though:

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...yn-general-election-brexit-labour-theresa-may

Cake and eating it without saying so. Not possibly negotiable as a third country.