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Oh Britain, what have you done (part ∞+6)?

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HarryB said:
If she was 'broadcast on national TV' I didn't see it.

But that doesn't change the material fact. She was expressing an opinion AT A FRINGE MEETING. Her opinion may be shared by many Labour members. It may be shared by Mullardman. That's irrelevant. It is not Labour Party policy and did not come from the main conference.

What will it lead you to think if Mullardman (or me for that matter) agree with her.
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You chaps can think and say what you like, it is a free country after all (I think!). The fact is, those views appear loud and clear in the Labour Party, which I find surprising. It’s pure gold for the tories, I’m sure they will wheel it out at some point. By the way, I think they are all a shambles but did think that calling for general strikes was very much buried in the past.
 
Ponty said:
You chaps can think and say what you like, it is a free country after all (I think!). The fact is, those views appear loud and clear in the Labour Party, which I find surprising. It’s pure gold for the tories, I’m sure they will wheel it out at some point. By the way, I think they are all a shambles but did think that calling for general strikes was very much buried in the past.
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Please don't call us chaps. My advice would be to leave that to resident Tory MickP.

If we can think and say what we like, why was it relevant to ask Mullardman his view?

You say 'those views appear loud and clear in the Labour Party'. Really. Can you let me know any other MP who has said the same?

As for the Tories wheeling it out I think they're too busy wheeling out their dead.

Perhaps you'll tell us a single positive thing the Tories have done since bribing their way into government.
 
sean99 said:
Exactly - my post #1890 says the same. Labour are playing the same deceitful games as the Tories, and hoping that the voters don't notice (because they're not in power). If Labour had decent leadership they would honestly lay out the clear options (no deal, Canada style FTA, Norway style or remain) and let their members decide. No deal should be ruled out due to the chaos it will cause. From where I'm sitting Norway has NO advantages over remain, so should be ruled out, and the Canada style FTA would require an article 50 extension of at least 1-2 years to negotiate, and would clearly offer reduced access to the single market, and throw up many thorny issues around the Irish border.

Either that or offer a second referendum, pray that the majority chooses remain and use democracy to back us out of this clusterf*ck.

Labour are obfuscating and running down the clock without offering ANY realistic solutions on Brexit.
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I think you can give Labour so more slack because they are not currently in government and in charge of this. What surprises me more is that nobody seems to even ask them the questions. If somebody did they could always straight bat non-answer them in the traditional way. So instead we end up in this weird state of pretending to believe things for the purposes of being able to continue the story; it's basically like watching "Bodyguard" :)

Norway does have some *huge* advantages over remain though:

-- It counts as leaving the EU which honours the referendum
-- It can be quickly and easily agreed and implemented.
-- It removes any need for another f**king referendum.

I'd take that just to be done with it at a relatively minor cost to the economy. Indeed I suspect a Norway deal would make a chunk of the cost back from where we are now just from the currency effects.
 
HarryB said:
Please don't call us chaps. My advice would be to leave that to resident Tory MickP.

If we can think and say what we like, why was it relevant to ask Mullardman his view?

You say 'those views appear loud and clear in the Labour Party'. Really. Can you let me know any other MP who has said the same?

As for the Tories wheeling it out I think they're too busy wheeling out their dead.

Perhaps you'll tell us a single positive thing the Tories have done since bribing their way into government.
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I’m not interested in the tories, I’m talking about labour as it was the centrepiece day of their conference, where Laura Smith MP addressed her ‘comrades’ and called for a general strike. If you watch the speech, you will be struck by the level of support from the audience, who are presumably members of the Labour Party. Richard Burgon gave her a standing ovation, although seems to have rowed back when questioned (unsurprisingly). Tom Watson has said it’s not labour policy. Clearly, she should have been managed but the opinion and support is there for all to see and it is viewpoints like this which will, in my opinion, prevent labour being elected. They should, after all, be way, way ahead in the polls right now based on the current cluster****.
 
Ponty said:
I’m not interested in the tories, I’m talking about labour as it was the centrepiece day of their conference, where Laura Smith MP addressed her ‘comrades’ and called for a general strike. If you watch the speech, you will be struck by the level of support from the audience, who are presumably members of the Labour Party. Richard Burgon gave her a standing ovation, although seems to have rowed back when questioned (unsurprisingly). Tom Watson has said it’s not labour policy. Clearly, she should have been managed but the opinion and support is there for all to see and it is viewpoints like this which will, in my opinion, prevent labour being elected. They should, after all, be way, way ahead in the polls right now based on the current cluster****.
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Waffle. Waffle. Waffle.

Not interested in the Tories? Why not, you'll be voting for them won't you?
 
matthewr said:
I'd take that just to be done with it at a relatively minor cost to the economy. Indeed I suspect a Norway deal would make a chunk of the cost back from where we are now just from the currency effects.
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Norway may be the least bad option, but it retains freedom of movement which violates 1 of labour's 6 tests.
 
matthewr said:
Norway does have some *huge* advantages over remain though:

-- It counts as leaving the EU which honours the referendum
-- It can be quickly and easily agreed and implemented.
-- It removes any need for another f**king referendum.

I'd take that just to be done with it at a relatively minor cost to the economy. Indeed I suspect a Norway deal would make a chunk of the cost back from where we are now just from the currency effects.
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Other advantages include:

-No more MEP gravy trains for UKIP wastes of space;
-No more ability to blame the EU for failures of domestic policy;
-A possible shift in the balance of power for the EEA states.

I’d still much prefer to stay in and retain a seat at the decision-making table, but if this is the price we have to pay for sacking Farage and his ilk then I can become reconciled to that.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
from what I recall, the forecasts assume a pretty immediate trade deal with the USA. We know Trump is keen to do one, but we also know Trump is a rapacious opportunist, who relishes a chance to do his opponent down when he senses weakness. And, let’s face it, the negotiating team we have available to send doesn’t exactly inspire confidence, does it? All of which suggests to me that a) the trade deal with the USA might not be the salvation it is cracked up to be so b) projections based on it may benefit from closer scrutiny.
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I think I'm using the forecasts that don't make that assumption, if I understand the charts I've seen correctly. But it doesn't make that much difference (in a way, that's the entire point - trade deals elsewhere will not offer much compensation for the trade with the EU we lose). If you disagree, please feel free to point me to the relevant study (not a newspaper article).
 
Tony L said:
The answer is to rescind A50 and find a way to remain. ...
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No need - please concentrate on what is really going on :

1. The EU does not want the UK to leave (it is a much bigger disaster for the EU in monetary, if not in percentage, terms). Tusk has on several occasions in the last year popped in an ..."or you can stay..." comment.

2. To achieve their goal, all they have to do is refuse to agree with the majority of the UK's proposals, as they continue to do.

3. This - as we can all see - puts huge & ever-mounting pressure on our totally Brexit-incompetent politicians (both Tory bastards and Labourite scum).

4. Eventually - and we're almost there - this reaches overwhelming proportions and the deafening calls for another referendum are finally accepted (NB. those who say that there is no time to arrange another referendum don't understand that we can take as much time as we like and the EU will be delighted to give it to us).

5. Having experienced real-world Project Fear since the first referendum's result, we will vote to Remain. If our politicians are smart enough - which unfortunately they are not - our terms could even be slightly improved.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Other advantages include:

-No more MEP gravy trains for UKIP wastes of space;
-No more ability to blame the EU for failures of domestic policy;
-A possible shift in the balance of power for the EEA states.

I’d still much prefer to stay in and retain a seat at the decision-making table, but if this is the price we have to pay for sacking Farage and his ilk then I can become reconciled to that.
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After watching our politicians over the last 2 years it might actually be better if we pay the same and NOT have a say in EU decision-making !
 
matthewr said:
I think you can give Labour so more slack because they are not currently in government and in charge of this. What surprises me more is that nobody seems to even ask them the questions. If somebody did they could always straight bat non-answer them in the traditional way. So instead we end up in this weird state of pretending to believe things for the purposes of being able to continue the story; it's basically like watching "Bodyguard" :)

Norway does have some *huge* advantages over remain though:

-- It counts as leaving the EU which honours the referendum
-- It can be quickly and easily agreed and implemented.
-- It removes any need for another f**king referendum.

I'd take that just to be done with it at a relatively minor cost to the economy. Indeed I suspect a Norway deal would make a chunk of the cost back from where we are now just from the currency effects.
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At least The Bodyguard's finished.
 
jtrade said:
2. To achieve their goal, all they have to do is refuse to agree with the majority of the UK's proposals, as they continue to do.
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The UK hasn't made any proposals that are not completely incompatible with either the rules of the eu (single market, customs union), the irish border or, if we include the drone policed border, reality. This is not the EU's fault.
 
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