why Corbyn may well win the next election.

[Joe Hutch]

Politics, in the end, is about 'who gets what'. How much of that reality is obscured by illusion is determined by a rather complex mix of spin, press/media sculduggery, voter apathy/ignorance/awareness/naivety etc. Suffice to say that there a a fair few who can see through the smoke and mirrors, but sadly far fewer than there ought to be.

And those who say they can see through the smoke and mirrors often cannot really do so; they just have a different set of illusions.

'I can summon sprits from the vasty deeps'

'Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them?'

 

[merlin]

Indeed. One's receptiveness to illusions appears to usually be based on inbuilt prejudice shaped during our early years.

 

[doctorf]

or who we might be having sex with at the time.

 

[Mescalito]

Ah, 'true Labour', that chimera of the left; a type of government we haven't seen since 1951 or 1979, depending on how rigorous one's definition of 'true Labour' is. Does the fact that we have not had such a government for either more than 65, or just short of 40 years not suggest that the electorate, taken as a whole, doesn't really want a 'true Labour' government?

When the Tories screw up badly, usually after 10+ years, the voters give Labour a go. Labour duly do their usual thing and create an economic wasteland. The Tories get re-elected and start to put things right. Labour, meanwhile react in their usual knee jerk manner and convince themselves that if only they were a more left wing party, they would have won the election, and duly lurch to the left (Foot, Corbynb).

The electorate take one look, say "f*ck that",and re-elect the Tories, who proceed to up the standard of living for the majority of the populace.

The only time this cycle has been broken was when Kinnock/Blair transformed the party into the left wing of the Tory party.

And so it goes......

Chris

 

[Still]

The electorate take one look, say "f*ck that",and re-elect the Tories, who proceed to up the standard of living for the majority of the populace.

Arf! From 1996 to today the Tories have been elected to a majority for just two years.

 

[Mescalito]

Arf! From 1996 to today the Tories have been elected to a majority for just two years.

I did state that New Labour were the Tories in all but name, did I not?

Chris

 

[Still]

I did state that New Labour were the Tories in all but name, did I not?

Irrelevant to your wonky assertion regarding re-election of Tories.

 

[doctorf]

I did state that New Labour were the Tories in all but name, did I not?

Chris

On the contrary, Blair was far more dangerous because he was a devious bastard with some unpleasant socialist traits. At least with the current Labour Party, what you see is what you get.

 

[merlin]

This is a graph showing the tax revenues to GDP ratio - the higher this is the more most people will consider that Country to be representative of a social democratic state.

Higher tax revenues as a percentage of GDP are indicative of the size of the public sector - and therefore in most cases, the quality of services such as health and education. Basic human rights in other words.

I don't think I would complain about the standards of living in Denmark, Austria, Germany, France or any of the other Countries that have far more social responsibility than the UK demonstrates (pretty much on a par with Czechoslovakia and Estonia...).

There is plenty of wiggle room for a Socialist government to make a difference for the many.

 

[Mescalito]

Irrelevant to your wonky assertion regarding re-election of Tories.

On the contrary, highly relevant. Blair convinced the voters that New Labour were not going to try & turn the country into a socialist paradise ( AKA failed state). He undertook to keep the Tory spending & tax limits. He was therefore deemed electable.

Chris

 

[Still]

He undertook to keep the Tory spending & tax limits. He was therefore deemed electable.

Unlike the Tories for 90% of the last two decades. Which brings us back to your wonky assertion.

 

[Mescalito]

Unlike the Tories for 90% of the last two decades. Which brings us back to your wonky assertion.

Blair's 1st term was indistinguishable from Major's last term. The transition was seamless.

Chris

 

[Still]

Blair's 1st term was indistinguishable from Major's last term. The transition was seamless.

Incorrect - it appears you have confused the later part of the Blair/Brown gov' with the beginning.

The PLP manifesto that first took Blair to power was far more to the left, and liberal, than Majors gov'.
It was over the years of power that big T and company drifted to the right and authoritarianism.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Mescalito argues that the Tories have to come in and repair the state after a protracted period of Labour government. This leads to Labour being characterised as profligate, and Tories as sensible.
The alternative view is that Labour have to come in and restore public services and infrastructure after they have been run down by the Tories. As we are currently living through a period of almost unprecedented running down of the nation, I’d have to say that the alternative view looks more convincing from where I’m sitting.

 

[HarryB]

The electorate take one look, say "f*ck that",and re-elect the Tories, who proceed to up the standard of living for the majority of the populace.

Chris

The Tories have been in power for, what, eight years.

Can you provide any stats to back up your ridiculous comment above?

 

[stephen bennett]

I don't remember the following being in the Major manifesto:

"Let me begin with the good things - for a striking feature of the book is how many good things there were and how much Labour improved the degraded social infrastructure left behind by 18 years of Conservatism. The first term was the most productive: the minimum wage (though it was too low and subsidised the profits of low-paying businessmen), credits boosted the incomes of pensioners (though one in five of eligible people didn’t take it up) and low-wage families (though tax credits were an administrative nightmare), devolution, a major boost to university research funding in arts and humanities, funding for the arts and restoration of free entry to museums and galleries, which were crammed with visitors thereafter."

Two things did for New Labour. The global economic crash and Iraq. Both would have happened under a Conservative Government.

Stephen

 

[ks.234]

or who we might be having sex with at the time.

Have a mind please Doctor.

I've just logged onto pfm and was confronted by your post, which I think you'll agree, is a little startling for delicate sensibilities when it comes at you all of a sudden.

I'm ok now though thank you.

 

[Minio]

Blair's 1st term was indistinguishable from Major's last term. The transition was seamless.

Chris

Talking of indistinguishability.

Am I the only one who gets so far down these threads only to forget which one I'm on?

 

[merlin]

All noise and no poise.

 

[Mullardman]

And those who say they can see through the smoke and mirrors often cannot really do so; they just have a different set of illusions.

'I can summon sprits from the vasty deeps'

'Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them?'

Joe, I'm sure that bit of Shakespeare is applicable to lots of illusions, especially I would say, religious ones... though to be fair I haven't read Henry IV since about 1964.. and don't recall where it heads.. However, it in no way negates the FACT that many are taken in by political illusions, but many aren't.

If I may say so, you seem to be in a very negative and nihilistic frame of mind of late.... Even I can see rays of hope here and there...