Agree I never planned to use that, but there is many believers out there.
The room correction on the other hand is interesting.
MDAC First Listen (part 00110100)
- Thread starter JohnW
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Agree I never planned to use that, but there is many believers out there.
The room correction on the other hand is interesting.
Sibbers
Earthling
Hey John,
QQ about how you expect EQ to work with the FDAC - will the use of EQ mean there is some deterioration in quality of the signal? ie: it's being meddled with, so ignoring the upsides of EQ, if you didn't need EQ would you be better off not using it, and does the signal path remain the same whether it's enabled or not?
I didn't think this would even be important, but MiniDSP 2x4 ruins the sound quality if I place it between source and MDAC using either SPDIF or Toslink so I tend to think even if it used USB I'd probably find the same and the end result is I'd rather have the boomy bass than the crap SQ that comes out of that thing.
Have you tried this and/or experienced it? No pops or clicks, just dull sound with less detail. Presumably you have thought about this and I'm waaaay behind, but I guess what I would like to know is that the EQ is global (affects all output indiscriminately) and doesn't need to transcode/up/downsample etc like many others because I worry that 'special something' might be lost if that occurs... (if that's even possible).
Have you got some ideas in mind and would you be able to share? I'm really stuck for solutions and the recent conversation (Roon, HQPlayer etc) shows other are interested too, but I'm just not sold on those myself when LMS/MDAC and my NAS does such a good job in general barring a few aspects (file support, and EQ)
Soz if I should pay more or better attention to the thread and this has been covered.
Cheers,
Martyn
QQ about how you expect EQ to work with the FDAC - will the use of EQ mean there is some deterioration in quality of the signal? ie: it's being meddled with, so ignoring the upsides of EQ, if you didn't need EQ would you be better off not using it, and does the signal path remain the same whether it's enabled or not?
I didn't think this would even be important, but MiniDSP 2x4 ruins the sound quality if I place it between source and MDAC using either SPDIF or Toslink so I tend to think even if it used USB I'd probably find the same and the end result is I'd rather have the boomy bass than the crap SQ that comes out of that thing.
Have you tried this and/or experienced it? No pops or clicks, just dull sound with less detail. Presumably you have thought about this and I'm waaaay behind, but I guess what I would like to know is that the EQ is global (affects all output indiscriminately) and doesn't need to transcode/up/downsample etc like many others because I worry that 'special something' might be lost if that occurs... (if that's even possible).
Have you got some ideas in mind and would you be able to share? I'm really stuck for solutions and the recent conversation (Roon, HQPlayer etc) shows other are interested too, but I'm just not sold on those myself when LMS/MDAC and my NAS does such a good job in general barring a few aspects (file support, and EQ)
Soz if I should pay more or better attention to the thread and this has been covered.
Cheers,
Martyn
Personally, I don't think there's benefit in ripping SACDs as the vast majority was probably mastered in PCM. Could be worth it if the masters are better than regular redbook CD ones, though.
edit: The HDCP master key has been cracked in ~2010 (won't post link here, just in case), so all you need now is the encrypted 1bit stream from the disk and you can software-decode it. Also, it's not only PS3 that can do it.
As a public service announcement (?), one of the very few BD/SACD players which can be used to easily rip SACDs is currently available -in limited quantities- on Amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00KFZWNQE/?tag=pinkfishmedia-21
(The Oppos 103/105 are becoming hard to find, and the cheapest alternative I can find in Europe is the Cambridge Audio CXU which is 2x dearer; the newer Oppos and Pioneer do not work for this unique need)
This site contains affiliate links for which pink fish media may be compensated.
Wow, I didn't know about this... I've been thinking of getting my SACD-60GB PS3 firmware downgraded for this purpose, but this looks a lot less painful.
Thanks for the tip off! Have taken the plunge.
This site contains affiliate links for which pink fish media may be compensated.
JohnW
pfm member
The FDAC's DSP's are totally bypassed when not used (No EQ / Room Correction etc).
I have to TOTALLY agree with you here. As Jarek and I where working in the lab over the Christmas period we mounted a LCD panel on the lab wall so we could watch some "Christmas shows" to get into the Christmas spirit
and need a HDMI switch box - the only device we had on hand was a MiniDSP NanoAVR HDR which we used with all audio setting set to flat and a pair of Active Mission speakers connected to the LCD's analogue line output. The first thing I noticed was that the audio was worst via our "HDMI Switch box" so we first confirmed that I was not imagining things then doubled checked the audio settings, everything ok... We then suspected extra Jitter - after about 10 minutes we realised that the MiniDSP NanoAVR HDR upsamples everything to 96KHz and we where just listening to how poor the NanoAVR up-sampling is!
Sibbers
Earthling
Well, it's encouraging to hear we've experienced the same findings. My MiniDSP gadget has been good for education purposes but I know as much as I need to now and so it's become entirely redundant - the calibrated mic is still handy
Thanks for the insights. Do you have ideas about how to preserve the integrity of the signal when routing through the DSPs, and is resampling unavoidable for the duties it carries out or can you EQ the signal 'as is'..?
Thanks for the insights. Do you have ideas about how to preserve the integrity of the signal when routing through the DSPs, and is resampling unavoidable for the duties it carries out or can you EQ the signal 'as is'..?
moosemeat
pfm Member
We have three DAC's based on our engineering platform we used for MDAC2 / FDAC XMOS software development, but will not be manufactured by us due to our focus being the MDAC2 / FDAC / VFET.
The little DAC's are current going into production.
L1:-
ES9038 Mobile
USB 2.0 PCM 768KHz / DSD256
SPDIF / Optical input
USB powered or optional HQ external PSU
RCA Analogue Line outputs
Selectable digital filters + optimal Transient filters
L2:-
As L1 with 6.3mm Headphone Jack + Level control (digital Pre-amplifier)
L3, as L1 but:-
Dual ES9038
1" Colour OLED screen
Remote control
Digital Pre-amplifier
L1 - L3 are currently on the production line, but L3 will be released once its submitted for potential European award...
We have used this platform during the development of the MDAC2 / FDAC by basically adding the more advanced analogue stages, testing PSU's Clocks etc... despite the small footprint and budget pricing they make VERY decent DAC's - but MDAC2 / FDAC will be in a different class.
Due to our workload on core projects these designs are not manufactured by us, but I'm sure I can arrange favourable prices for those planning to join our group at Munich
Hi John,
I'm quite interested in a L2 or L3 (would be more interested if they had XLR out) as I have a pair of monitors waiting for FDAC. Do you have any more info on these? Is there a website? Can you give indicative pricing? Can PFMers still get them if not attending Munich?
Cheers,
Bruce
It is almost 2017 I can not believe that I just read that some of you want to be able to burn CD/DVD from your FDAC
Now files is transferred/backed up to the Cloud, USB drive and NAS.
Why because 8GB DVD or even 25Gb that a Bluray can hold is is just not enough when you have a TB of music.
And then why from the FDAC when it is much easier from the UI of a computer.
It is fine to be able to play CDs, but that is it.
+1
12 TB NAS, with 6 TB of music, lots of hi-res.
Never going back to disks again
I feel like a tremendous amount of time is wasted on trying to integrate boards, streamers, OS'es.
While there have been many external WORKING solutions for years !
No wonder there's nothing released after +3 years.
Apple remote on iPhone;
https://www.dropbox.com/s/n7pnlb11cnm1b5x/Playing.jpg?dl=0
Totally aggree with that.
Personnally, I use the following configuration :
Music stored in an NAS, a lots of hi-res from Qobuz.
Audirvana Plus on a mac mini.
M2tech hiface interface
digital coax cable to the MDAC
upgraded QUAD 909 amp
ATC SCM 40 speaker (passive)
A chromecast audio with optical toslink
I control everything with an old iPhone 4, with iTunes and Audirvana client app.
I'm very happy with the sound quality. I think it's a versatile and a long term solution. And i like the half size format of this hifi system.
I have the M-CDT CD drive too. It does not have the clock sync, but I don't use CD very often, and it's a well integrated design and i can use the same remote control with MDAC and M-CDT.
All i need with MDAC2 / FDAC is the same functionnalities as the MDAC with better sound quality, the MDAC remote control support, DSD support if possible, the ability to use the M-CDT (or other external CD player)
I don't think it's a good idea to add a CD drive in the FDAC ... I take a lot of place for something which will be hardy ever used in 2017 (or 2018 and below !)
Happy new year
Dear John
I am convinced that it is a good idea to go for MDAC2 full options (Vishay, Streamer and ADC). Since Ripping LPs will not be done in the listening room. This unit will eventually stay in a side room when the FDAC will be ready. So I would like the development cost of the FDAC level2 be transferred to MDAC2 and I will take advantage of the 50% reduction in development cost for the FDAC at a later date; when only level2 will be required. Further I will not need the VR mini-amps, as I am already invested with 10 symmetrical architecture amplifiers fed by banks of batteries and bypassed with 2 Farads 60Volts per rail capacitors. I had PM you and Renata previously but I do not know whether this channel still works.
I am convinced that it is a good idea to go for MDAC2 full options (Vishay, Streamer and ADC). Since Ripping LPs will not be done in the listening room. This unit will eventually stay in a side room when the FDAC will be ready. So I would like the development cost of the FDAC level2 be transferred to MDAC2 and I will take advantage of the 50% reduction in development cost for the FDAC at a later date; when only level2 will be required. Further I will not need the VR mini-amps, as I am already invested with 10 symmetrical architecture amplifiers fed by banks of batteries and bypassed with 2 Farads 60Volts per rail capacitors. I had PM you and Renata previously but I do not know whether this channel still works.
JohnW
pfm member
Bruce,
I agree with you WRT the XLR outputs - but this design is based upon an internal development board we designed so Jarek could start work on the FDAC / MDAC2 XMOS software (and to test clock circuits etc) - as a "development board" we did not need XLR outputs (the Headphone output was more important - Jarek sits there with headphones on while working on the software so he does not have to listen to me!).
At Munich we made contact with a company who where interested in a DAC design so we designed a front panel for our "Internal development board" in made a complete product - well a range of 3 DAC's based on the same PCB.
As this company is a "third Party" I cannot speak for them, but I can ask for a "favour"
to support our fellow PFMer's - they are not an easy company to deal with as the owner is quite a "character" and I'm sure lots of politics involved when dealing with the internet and a public forum...The company's quite large....During the Christmas period we had the first PP batch to test and approve before they headed to CES.
I'll make sure to arrange unit for you
JohnW
pfm member
JohnW
pfm member
I WANT a CD/DVD/Blueray drive so thats it - the FDACs having one
I have many live concerts on DVD with excellent audio tracks, I want an easy no messing way to extract these tracks so I can reply them - stored on the local drive...
I don't want to mess with computers that never work - or you need to spend hours to do a "simple thing"... No No No, just pop a disk in - copy to the internal SSD drive then I have the music for personal listening...
In fact ideally I don't really want a computer in my listening room - or anywhere near my Audio system.
jansen
pfm Member
I WANT a CD/DVD/Blueray drive so thats it - the FDACs having one
I have many live concerts on DVD with excellent audio tracks, I want an easy no messing way to extract these tracks so I can reply them - stored on the local drive...
I don't want to mess with computers that never work - or you need to spend hours to do a "simple thing"... No No No, just pop a disk in - copy to the internal SSD drive then I have the music for personal listening...
In fact ideally I don't really want a computer in my listening room - or anywhere near my Audio system.
Well said, me too!
I WANT a CD/DVD/Blueray drive so thats it - the FDACs having one
I have many live concerts on DVD with excellent audio tracks, I want an easy no messing way to extract these tracks so I can reply them - stored on the local drive...
I don't want to mess with computers that never work - or you need to spend hours to do a "simple thing"... No No No, just pop a disk in - copy to the internal SSD drive then I have the music for personal listening...
In fact ideally I don't really want a computer in my listening room - or anywhere near my Audio system.
And me also!
I WANT a CD/DVD/Blueray drive so thats it - the FDACs having one
I have many live concerts on DVD with excellent audio tracks, I want an easy no messing way to extract these tracks so I can reply them - stored on the local drive...
I don't want to mess with computers that never work - or you need to spend hours to do a "simple thing"... No No No, just pop a disk in - copy to the internal SSD drive then I have the music for personal listening...
In fact ideally I don't really want a computer in my listening room - or anywhere near my Audio system.
I can understand this position. Nevertheless, in my case there is no screen nor keyboard close to the mac mini. I access it with a smartphone (iphone in my case, but it's OK with an Android one) with dedicated client apps.
Only if necessary, i can take control of the mac mini with a laptop and Remote Desktop. To import CD, i use an external drive (apple superdrive) connected to the mac mini. Its works everyday, for several years now, in silence and with low power consumption.
I am afraid that the software part of the FDAC to manage CD/DVD import, error read management while extracting, media library management, streaming, will be too complex / too long to develop. Maybe more complex than the FDAC project itself ! And there a lots of very good existing applications on PC or Mac, that work very well for years (and a lots of open source apps too).
What's more, i much prefer to store music files in a network storage (NAS) with hard disk replication, and placed in another room than the listening room. This is my music personal collection i have built for years, and i don't want to lose it.
According to me, a modern HIFI system should make it a priority to manage dematerialized support. The easier way is a connexion to a network, and a computer behind ...
timola
pfm Member
This really appeals to me...I need to decouple myself when listening. The occasional pop up alert really really annoys me.
JohnW
pfm member
The FDAC's SOC operates under Linux to basically run QT to drive the front panel touch display, I REALLY dont see this as an issue - and there no reason that it cannot be added after the FDAC hardware is released as much as most of the other software features will be built up overtime.
And sadly its total rubbish to talk about "Read Management" on CD/DVD you just DONT get errors in any significant qty. This is just an urban "internet" myth that has become reality in the minds of some.
Each servo chipset has C1 and C2 error status pins that can be used to indicate the total disk read error count - a normal CD / DVD will have C1 errors that are 100% losslessy corrected by the Servo chipset with maybe less then a handful of C2 errors that require "interpolation" - on an average disk with minor scratching you might see say two non Corrected errors where the servo has to "Guess" the missing information out of millions upon millions of data frames... your simply not going to hear 2 "guessed" frames...
I'm afraid this "Read Management" hocus pocus is so frustrating to engineers who understand CD/DVD designs...
Muiltpass "Read Management" makes sense when you have a badly damaged disk and are trying to recover data - but in day to day use its by design simply not required.
The internal drive offers a "Clock Locked" audio source that is not the case with an external CD transport - ignoring the internal drives ability to read / extract and save data!
I'm also sorry to say the FDAC is NEVER planed to have "media library management, streaming software" - I'm sure 3rd partys will add such features - but we are not going to spend our limited engineering resource on such "out of our expertise" area.
We will have a basic media player included with Linux and nothing else - the FDAC is primarily a DAC / ADC which so happens to have a Linux based SOC to drive the front panel UI - owners can build upon the basic FDAC SOC functions - but its not anything we intend to put much effort in as our interest is in the basic DAC / Audio functions (FPGA / DSP etc).
Sure we hope that the Linux software on the FDAC will grow and become more polished, its makes a great community platform to develop such software - but its NOTHING that we are promising or are claiming on the FDAC specifications.
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