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Linn LP12 Sub-chassis again

I

IDM

pfm Member
Hi,
I am going through the decision process of selecting which sub chassis to buy to replace in my current Cirkus LP12. I have excluded all the Linn products as I think they are too expensive. Looking at the third party vendors I have narrowed down to either the Analogue Innovation Sole VII or the Vinyl Passion Unity 2. Both have very positive Hifi World reviews. However, the Sole review is for the Sole VI not the Sole VII. Given that the Sole VII has (as I understand it) quite a different construction I am not sure that the review is helpful. With the Vinyl Passion sub-chassis, there are some very positive comments about one of their decks at one of the hifi shows, which helps. I have looked on the Linn forum, though to be honest much of the discussion seems so childish it is hard to learn much.

I am sure from all I have read that either product will be a significant improvement over my current steel chassis, but cannot decide which. I am very interested in anyone who can help me understand possible differences and benefits between these chassis and certainly the views of anyone who has heard either or preferably both these products.

By the way my LP12 has an Armageddon clone PSU. Ittok LVIII and Kontrapunkt B cartridge.

Thanks
Ian
 
Hi
I have considered it but being in the UK I would prefer a UK supplier plus the exchange rate is not so good at the moment.

Cheers
Ian
 
I had a Sole MkV fitted to my LP12 a few years back and have been very pleased with the lift it gave to the sound quality. I have no experience of the other options and would imagine that the later iterations of the Sole would bring enhancements.

Good luck.
 
Good topic, i have a pre circus LP12 and am exploring all the options, I have an Aro DIY Gedon and Troika, the GS looks very good BTW, as do the others. How much would the Linn sub chassis be?

Martin

PS not dealt with them direct, but https://www.cymbiosis.com seem to have options.
 
As a sub chassis maker for the LP12 here are the options that I'm aware of;

Linn keel, expensive but good, single connection

Linn Kore, good value and positive feedback, multiple connection

Green street, a Keel clone but missing some elements, multiple connection

Sole, good value and good reports, multiple connection

Inspire, don't know much about it, different materials, multiple connection

Our own Akula sub chassis, (!) single connection

I've heard most, but unfortunately not always in direct comparison. My view is that pretty much all of them take the deck in the right direction and offer a fundamental improvement in the way music is retrieved. I very much doubt anyone has heard them all in a comparative context so it is a bit suck it and see I'm afraid, but in the main, I've not come across anyone being unhappy with any of them. Obviously there are the usual shills out there claiming other world performance for some but they should be fairly obvious.
 
TPA said:
As a sub chassis maker for the LP12 here are the options that I'm aware of;

Linn keel, expensive but good, single connection

Linn Kore, good value and positive feedback, multiple connection

Green street, a Keel clone but missing some elements, multiple connection

Sole, good value and good reports, multiple connection

Inspire, don't know much about it, different materials, multiple connection

Our own Akula sub chassis, (!) single connection

I've heard most, but unfortunately not always in direct comparison. My view is that pretty much all of them take the deck in the right direction and offer a fundamental improvement in the way music is retrieved. I very much doubt anyone has heard them all in a comparative context so it is a bit suck it and see I'm afraid, but in the main, I've not come across anyone being unhappy with any of them. Obviously there are the usual shills out there claiming other world performance for some but they should be fairly obvious.
Click to expand...

Not in the case of the Aro version where it is close to an exact copy other than the arm geometry.
 
Slightly off topic, does a slight squeaking chassis matter? My Linn Cirkus Chassis has a slight squeak other than that it bounces fine.
 
OP if you are near Cymbiosis, Peter will be able to provide direct demo of a range of sub chassis options including our own, this way you get to listen and compare yourself.
 
amazement said:
Slightly off topic, does a slight squeaking chassis matter? My Linn Cirkus Chassis has a slight squeak other than that it bounces fine.
Click to expand...

That will normally mean one of the springs is rubbing against the rubber insert in the sub chassis. It could be the arm lead touching something else, but unlikely. Essentially yes, it is an indication that the springs have not been adjusted perfectly and it is not ideal, it really ought to bounce silently and in a vertical plane with very little, if any lateral (or rotational) component.

I hesitate to recommend that you do it yourself, though if you are happy to, then go for it if you are familiar with how to set it up. Peter from Cymbiosis has done a very good set up guide on the Linn forum. In (very) brief terms you need to do the following;

1. Disconnect the arm lead from the arm from beneath the turntable.
2. Adjust the height of the springs by turning the M5 nuts on each carrier to get the platter exactly level. (ensure turntable is also level)
3. Adjust the springs by turning them to get a free, vertical bounce. You want to avoid any rotational component.
4. re attach arm lead and make sure that the bounce is still free and unaffected. If it is then adjust how the arm cable is positioned.

I should warn you that getting a good bounce can take any where between 2 minutes and a lot lot longer... This is where experience counts. Each spring is slightly off centre so if you imagine three together you want to position them so that they are not fighting each other, and there are limitless combinations. Sometimes it's quite quick to get the right combination other times it's tiresome. Approach the task in a relaxed manner, if it starts to piss you off then walk away and come back to it.

Alternatively take it to a dealer! In the above instance you may find just adjusting one or two of the springs a very small amount will solve your problem.
 
TPA said:
That will normally mean one of the springs is rubbing against the rubber insert in the sub chassis. It could be the arm lead touching something else, but unlikely. Essentially yes, it is an indication that the springs have not been adjusted perfectly and it is not ideal, it really ought to bounce silently and in a vertical plane with very little, if any lateral (or rotational) component.

I hesitate to recommend that you do it yourself, though if you are happy to, then go for it if you are familiar with how to set it up. Peter from Cymbiosis has done a very good set up guide on the Linn forum. In (very) brief terms you need to do the following;

1. Disconnect the arm lead from the arm from beneath the turntable.
2. Adjust the height of the springs by turning the M5 nuts on each carrier to get the platter exactly level. (ensure turntable is also level)
3. Adjust the springs by turning them to get a free, vertical bounce. You want to avoid any rotational component.
4. re attach arm lead and make sure that the bounce is still free and unaffected. If it is then adjust how the arm cable is positioned.

I should warn you that getting a good bounce can take any where between 2 minutes and a lot lot longer... This is where experience counts. Each spring is slightly off centre so if you imagine three together you want to position them so that they are not fighting each other, and there are limitless combinations. Sometimes it's quite quick to get the right combination other times it's tiresome. Approach the task in a relaxed manner, if it starts to piss you off then walk away and come back to it.

Alternatively take it to a dealer! In the above instance you may find just adjusting one or two of the springs a very small amount will solve your problem.
Click to expand...

Many thanks, most helpful.
 
Given the age of the Ittok LVIII, I would have it checked, bearings re-adjusted correctly
and the inner wire replaced at Audio Origami.

I'm not very experienced with Ittoks, but the inner ta wire of the older Ekos is not up to the task by todays standards & I suppose this accounts for elderly Ittoks the same.

Regarding the bearings my Ekos did not exactly feel bad before sending it off to AO,
but the difference beween ~ ok and absolutely drop dead spot on is huge with tonearms.
J7 did a great job and he told me once done the Ittok and Ekos Mk1 are in an even high level.

I did both the same time, got a Sole and sent my Ekos off to J7
bc I did not want a not 100% arm on a now perfect subchassis platform.

I think you can get a Sole from Audio Origami too, as if I'm right J7 & John R are cooperating well, would save you postage 1 time.

And as before mentioned next to nobody will have tested several subchassis platforms in direct comparison, so all I can say is I took the Sole and hearing the result I was not even tempted to check out others as I found it hard to imagine that another substancial + would be to be had for reasonable money.

Both measures arm & Sole together felt a Galaxy jump in LP12 terms.
And I think both measures together, the arm re-furb + the Sole could be about the money some competitors ask for an aftermarket subchassis alone.

And I doubt they will manage to outperform the double package I choose
in vfm by a Subchassis alone.
Personally I believe not even a Keel will.

My 2p.

PS: and if you have the older version of OUTTER tonearmcable still, the thinnish grey double gun style wire, get rid of this and take an A.O. or alternative IC, the old outter wire is the horror,
the inner not being much better.
 
Just to add from my experience, my LP12 which had a Basik Plus tonearm fand original sub chassis was nearing 30yr old, I had owned from new. I reached a stage where I was either going to replace the turntable with something different or upgrade it.

I auditioned other turntables and had a home demo and was glad I decided to keep my LP12 and build on what was already a really good turntable by replacing the subchassis with a Sole Subchassis by Analogue Innovation. Delighted with the outcome and noticeable elevation in the performance of the sound quality, the Sole added so much more in terms of musical enjoyment.

After a while I decided to look at replacing the tonearm. After much deliberation I replaced the tonearm with a modified Rega RB251 tonearm purchased from Audio Origami. The specifications included foam fill, upgraded wiring and cartridge tags, quality audio cable and terminals etc. This was certainly worthwhile doing, the new tonearm sounded so much better than my old Basik Plus.

I'm no technical expert and prefer to judge the improvement by my ears, but the quality of workmanship of both the Sole and the AO Modified RB251 was very impressive.
 
FWIW I have the acrylic Vivid/Inspire sub-chassis under my Ittok LVIII and it is much better than the original but I have no idea if the Sole, Kore etc. are streets better but I somehow doubt it or they wouldn´t keep improving them. To be honest, at the time all the other alternatives seemed just too expensive and for that matter probably still do. I must say the word acrylic was a bit off-putting to me as far as hi-fi is concerned but I stand corrected and if anything I would say it gives a vaguely "warm" hint to the sound despite the greater bass detail and agility. Mr. Evans´piano still sounds like a piano to me and I would say it´s a bargain but there again it only cost me 200 odd quid back in the day. No idea, now.
 
samz said:
Just to add from my experience, my LP12 which had a Basik Plus tonearm fand original sub chassis was nearing 30yr old, I had owned from new. I reached a stage where I was either going to replace the turntable with something different or upgrade it.

I auditioned other turntables and had a home demo and was glad I decided to keep my LP12 and build on what was already a really good turntable by replacing the subchassis with a Sole Subchassis by Analogue Innovation. Delighted with the outcome and noticeable elevation in the performance of the sound quality, the Sole added so much more in terms of musical enjoyment.

After a while I decided to look at replacing the tonearm. After much deliberation I replaced the tonearm with a modified Rega RB251 tonearm purchased from Audio Origami. The specifications included foam fill, upgraded wiring and cartridge tags, quality audio cable and terminals etc. This was certainly worthwhile doing, the new tonearm sounded so much better than my old Basik Plus.

I'm no technical expert and prefer to judge the improvement by my ears, but the quality of workmanship of both the Sole and the AO Modified RB251 was very impressive.
Click to expand...


Love reading stories like this. All your capital costs in the LP12 were paid off years ago. Now with a couple of really smart upgrades the old veteran is better than new and at not much cost.
 
Thanks for all the responses, all very interesting. I think it may well be true that all the different options do lift the performance and its a case of just making a decision.

I am surprised that there doesn't seem to be any viny passion users given the very positive review in Hifi World a while back.

Hopefully there will be some more input and thoughts

Cheers
Ian
 
I've just looked at the Vinyl Passion website... didn't realise they have so many Linn upgrades: subchassis, armboards, springs, even a new top plate. The prices seem sensible too.
 
I noticed in one of the previous posts mentioning the majority of the 3rd party Linn sub chassis manufacturers omitted the " Plateau " by Tangerine Audio.

I've owned the above since the end of last year and I can vouch that it has taken my LP 12 to another level complmenting the Karmen already fitted. It has opened up the soundstage making the bass tighter and a greater front to back in the mix. I think Cymbiosis has one on demonstration together with the Kore and Keel.

Regards,

Martin
 
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