What's the truth about the LP12?
- Thread starter Monkey
- Start date
merlin
Avatar changed - Town names deemed offensive.
To just balance things out (pun unintended), the 25th Anniversary Brinkmann was €31,000 without a phono stage or bottle of anything decent. That would be circa £35,000 with Brinkmann's equivalent phono stage. £35,005 with a bottle of Blue Nun.
Brinkmann 25th Anniversary TT
Wolfmancatsup
Empire State Human
Price itself isn't the issue Merle. Its the price to performance ratio and comparison with peers at the same price point. Also this thread isn't about Brinkmann.
£35k for a world leading deck could be argued as fair price. £25K for an obsolete old fruit box is criminal. Hope that clears up your misconceptions
Also the lagrange sounds better than the balance and the fein phono straight into a power amp (it has a volume control built in) will beat the edision into a preamp which would put the price around £18k for Brinkmann's best sounding combo bang on the same as the top spec linn. Therefore this is the most relevant comparison based on equal cost.
£35k for a world leading deck could be argued as fair price. £25K for an obsolete old fruit box is criminal. Hope that clears up your misconceptions
Also the lagrange sounds better than the balance and the fein phono straight into a power amp (it has a volume control built in) will beat the edision into a preamp which would put the price around £18k for Brinkmann's best sounding combo bang on the same as the top spec linn. Therefore this is the most relevant comparison based on equal cost.
Lets compare like for like shall we and be a bit more accurate.... So deleting the cart as you can have any and the same on all TT's....
You don't need 3 power supplies, two motors a phone stage, it can be any you want, and two sub chassis. Also you don't need the Klimax Radikal, the Akurate cased version will perform the same.
Plus the prices you used are for upgrades and not when buy a complete deck, as the redundant parts would be credited back as I understand it.
And to compare the limited special prices is stupid.... it is what it is a few off to celebrate 40 years for "collectors"
Lp12 £2.0k
Keel £2.5k
Radikal £2.8K
Ekos SE £3.7K
Less old sub chassis and motor, and basik power supply I guess -£600 back?
So about £10.4K ...... plus cart
You don't need 3 power supplies, two motors a phone stage, it can be any you want, and two sub chassis. Also you don't need the Klimax Radikal, the Akurate cased version will perform the same.
Plus the prices you used are for upgrades and not when buy a complete deck, as the redundant parts would be credited back as I understand it.
And to compare the limited special prices is stupid.... it is what it is a few off to celebrate 40 years for "collectors"
Lp12 £2.0k
Keel £2.5k
Radikal £2.8K
Ekos SE £3.7K
Less old sub chassis and motor, and basik power supply I guess -£600 back?
So about £10.4K ...... plus cart
Warren Day
pfm Member
Radikal (Akurate type case) £2.7K
Radikal (machined ingot Klimax case) £4.7K
Urika £2.4k - or £1.9K (£500 saved if bought at the same time as a Radikal).
Radikal (machined ingot Klimax case) £4.7K
Urika £2.4k - or £1.9K (£500 saved if bought at the same time as a Radikal).
The Linn has a well-developed suspension which will provide a good degree of isolation. The Brinkmann has....nothing. It offers no real attempt at acoustic isolation...which is one of the two necessary requirements of a deck (decent speed control being the other.)
Factor that into the price/value equation. A real buyer has to add all these factors up....as well as long-term serviceability and second-hand values. It's a complex mix which involves more than just throwing price into the pot. I imagine even wealthy people want good value.
Factor that into the price/value equation. A real buyer has to add all these factors up....as well as long-term serviceability and second-hand values. It's a complex mix which involves more than just throwing price into the pot. I imagine even wealthy people want good value.
It is designed to be used with an external isolation platform and is indeed often packaged with such an item. I use a Townsend seismic sink. Combined with the high mass and overall inertness this complete solution offers better isolation that the LP12 without the drawbacks and as such offers the most elegant isolation solution.
pure sound
Trade: manufacturer/distributor
I'm not convinced a Seismic Sink does afford isolation as effectively as a properly implemented sprung suspension system.
Is it also using a round section belt?
Is it also using a round section belt?
TSS / Vibraplane / HRS offer better isolation than a sprung suspension and I recall mag reviews published measurements backing this up though they may have been parroted from Townshend. You could also use an active isolation workbench designed for the likes of electron microscopes for turntable isolation and indeed people do. These offer orders of magnitude better isolation than sprung suspension. I also enclose the entire unit in a big perspex lid grounded with blu tak. If I place the stylus on a record on the platter and turn up the volume there is very little pickup from the environment even if I tap the platter. Only tapping the tonearm itself will show up a few arm resonances. It isnt as resonance free in the treble as the SME V. Repeating these tests with the LP12 shows the isolation is much less effective.
chris@panteg
pfm Member
Myself and a good friend heard an an A/B dem of a seismic sink vs a good but pretty standard isolation table , we both thought thought it sounded worse with the seismic sink .
Not what we expected .
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
On the question of value, I think it is also relevant to consider the likely value on resale, because that will reflect the cost of ownership. As many have mentioned on here, several rival turntables are either no longer made and indeed their makers no longer in business (and hence reliant on third-party support which may come and go), or the older versions (Roksan, PT) are fragile and likely to be shagged.
There is, however, a lively and thriving s/h market for Linn LP12s, and even sad and knackered versions tend to go for a useful percentage of their new price.
No doubt the likes of Brinkmanns (Brinkmen?) also hold their value well enough (though Jek got his for a steal, apparently, so perhaps they do depreciate - if so, given their excellent performance, that may reflect the size of the potential market).
I think a bog-standard Linn can be fun, and a well-fettled or thoughtfully modified Linn can be a lot of fun. (Some of the fun, of course, comes from playing with the variety of mods available out there).
Arguing that it isn't good value, based on a premium-priced anniversary edition is just plain daft.
There is, however, a lively and thriving s/h market for Linn LP12s, and even sad and knackered versions tend to go for a useful percentage of their new price.
No doubt the likes of Brinkmanns (Brinkmen?) also hold their value well enough (though Jek got his for a steal, apparently, so perhaps they do depreciate - if so, given their excellent performance, that may reflect the size of the potential market).
I think a bog-standard Linn can be fun, and a well-fettled or thoughtfully modified Linn can be a lot of fun. (Some of the fun, of course, comes from playing with the variety of mods available out there).
Arguing that it isn't good value, based on a premium-priced anniversary edition is just plain daft.