Cereal Killer
432
IIRC Keith uses the MAN301 with built in DAC in his own system. Which he prefers to his McMini DAC202 combo.
Resonessence Labs INVICTA - move over Weiss DAC202U, theres a new king in town!
- Thread starter Cereal Killer
- Start date
Purité Audio
Trade: Purite Audio
Raj yes either Weiss MAN 301 with built in dac ,which is based on the 202 or the MAN server only version with a Medea Plus dac connected via USB or Fireire or AES, I haven't noticed any difference between inputs, and I wouldn't expect to.
Still looking forward to trying the Invicta here, no word from Phil as to quite when.
Keith.
Still looking forward to trying the Invicta here, no word from Phil as to quite when.
Keith.
Cereal Killer
432
The INVICTA is going down a storm in Asia ATM... Maybe that's why UK stock is a little light. Dunno, you should email Mark@Resonessence, he should get back to you.
In that case, the squirming would be for the other reason, wouldn't it?
As far as I know, all distribution is still going through Unilet still at this point. But if you need to borrow a demonstrator, Keith, give me a bell.
Except yours?
"As you've found, the DacMagic can normally attenuate the interface jitter very effectively, but it is true that if the incoming jitter is sufficiently large, it can become outside the timing window that the ATF is able to totally reclock.
In particular, we've found that, with laptops, using battery power results in very good total correlated jitter similar to TosLink or S/PDIF (<200ps or lower at 44.1kHz, and with about the same noise floor), but using the typical switch-mode PSU with the same laptop can result in 30003500ps of jitter.
See, attached, some Miller Jitter Test graphs from our own QC suite. TosLink/S/PDIF performance (fig.3) is generally below the measurable limit with the J-Test with 16-bit data; a USB using a battery-powered laptop (fig.1) is not far off. However, a USB using a laptop powered by its PSU is somewhat worse (fig.2); this is probably what you were measuring in that particular USB jitter test.
Also, as you can see, the noise floor when using the PSU is higher, as you found yourselvesalthough, again, this is actually due to the source rather than the intrinsic resolution of the DacMagic's USB interface or D/A conversion. Interestingly for USB transfer, it appears to be like the old (halcyon?) days of analog and the "front end first" doctrine.
Digital audio is certainly not a panacea (not that I need to tell you that!), and products like the DacMagic can do only so much, especially via USB. If the source is pretty good, the DacMagic can make it even better; if the source is not so good, the DacMagic can do only so much!
Matthew Bramble, Technical Director, Cambridge Audio"
(This doesn't mean you need to buy into trace amounts of hocus pocus though of course)
sonddek
Trade: SUPATRAC
It's worth looking at the page itself, because then you can see the actual degradation associated with the USB input:
http://www.stereophile.com/content/cambridge-audio-azur-dacmagic-da-converter-manufacturers-comments
A couple of peaks at -100dB.
Personally, I've never used the USB inputs on my DACMagics because Cambridge have always been so up front about the extent to which that interface is broken. I bought several DACMagics in the knowledge that the USB input was less good than the SPDIF inputs. The Invicta seems to offer less of a discrepancy between the inputs though, as far as I can work it out from the manufacturer's comments.
Cereal Killer
432
Try one sonddek... then you have your answers in front of you 
sonddek
Trade: SUPATRAC
Try one sonddek... then you have your answers in front of you
I would love to, but it will probably make me unhappy, as I simply can't afford one. I take seriously your opinion that it is pretty effing good.
Cereal Killer
432
Tiz indeed!
EDIT: PS, if sold one of you 500 TT's you could buy one
EDIT: PS, if sold one of you 500 TT's you could buy one
sonddek
Trade: SUPATRAC
Tiz indeed!
EDIT: PS, if sold one of you 500 TT's you could buy one
Not true yet, as none of my five decks is worth much more than a grand, but give it a couple of years and Invict-a-likes will be £400.
Cereal Killer
432
Robert
Tapehead
Especially mine.
Try a different pair of glasses, or read the rest of the review text. Hint- try reading the bits describing the performance using those inputs able to use the full capability of the converter.
I'll pop back in a couple of days which should give you long enough to understand it.
Because he's a troll.
sonddek
Trade: SUPATRAC
You're welcome to borrow my Concero, Richard: even if you can't afford an Invicta, and are evidently a digital heathen.
Big smiley coming up . . .
A very kind offer, which I may take up.
Can I drive a Concero from an Airport Express USB or TOSLINK output?
No, I won't let you. Only if you use a cryo-treated T2 with the Adnaco fibre-optic isolation and a sensible dual-conduit USB cable.
Are you backtracking? Now you want to pick and choose the inputs? The discussion was about different input types - specifically USB/SPDIF/SD card. You quite cleary intervened and said that most dacs render differences amongst different inputs insignificant. Now that you have learned one input on your DAC doesn't achieve this, you want to exclude that input from analysis! Very clever.
A laptop plugged in at the mains playing 16/44.1khz audio seems a very real situation to me, and I and Matthew Bramble are pointing out that the DAC does not attenuate jitter very well at all in this instance.
This is nothing to do with the "limitations" of the USB input - why should 16/44.1 via USB be any different to 16/44.1 via SPDIF - and you should read the text yourself. All tests are at 16/44.1khz, and there are pretty pictures to help you understand - compare USB on battery powered laptop vs USB on mains powered laptop. Bramble even spells it out pre-empting those lacking the ability to get what is going on: "again, this is actually due to the source rather than the intrinsic resolution of the DacMagic's USB interface or D/A conversion".
sonddek
Trade: SUPATRAC
Someone will have to explain it to me then. As far as I can see it ignores jitter pretty well. Just not quite as well as it does on inputs which have built-in data rates, like spdif. It's a known shortcoming of the USB interface, and a better DAC ought to do an even better job of ignoring the vagaries of USB. The USB graph seems to me to be showing noise in the -90 - -130dB region. Are we to get very excited about that? It's a 200 quid DAC FFS and the manufacturer clearly states that the spdif inputs are better if you're worried about it.